Federation Commander

[pinecone]

I've seen the klingon Penal variants, but I'm a little confused as to what they are for. If you want to have "dishonored ships," you typically wouldn't give a cruiserthat assignemnt, would you? Thanks.

[OGOPTIMUS]

Penal ships are there for officers to redeem themselves after they have committed serious errors in judgement, criminal or cowardly acts or for being disgraced in some way.

So they're not for the ones that are to be gotten rid of, those officers are executed or forced out.

I suppose the reason to have cruisers is that some officers come from cruisers, and thus need to prove themselves on a cruiser versus a frigate or other penal ship.
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[mjwest]

The general idea is this: A Klingon officer has somehow disgraced himself in his service to the empire. Maybe he lost a battle he should have won. Maybe he did something dishonorable (but not criminal). Maybe he simply was on the losing side of a political battle. Regardless, he is still a valuable officer, but has lost his honor. He needs the chance to regain his honor.

Thus the "penal" ships. These ships are there to give those dishonored officers a chance to redeem themselves. Note that they typically perform extremely dangerous missions, so the chance of dying is always much higher than on a "typical" naval ship. But that increased risk adds to the chances of redemption.

The "penal" ships also suffer from reduced effectiveness. Primarily because the subject species fully understand the situation. They often are sent there, too, for similar reasons. They may not have as much respect for their officers as on other ships. (Thus the reason why the ship always operates under the restrictions of (5X) Degraded Crew.)

Do note that these dishonored officers are not considered to be vastly incompetent. Incompetents should be weeded out by that point and dismissed. They are not criminals (despite the "penal" name). Criminals are put in jail or executed. They are not treasonous; they are still loyal Klingons. The treasonous are executed.

The penal ship system does seem inefficient. However, it fits the Klingon culture, and fulfills an important role despite that inefficiency. It is actually, not necessarily that efficient, however. Another empire would likely simply dismiss the offender, severely demote the offender, or both. This will either prevent the offender from redeeming themselves, or make the process take a long, long time. With the Klingon system, rank is not dropped nearly as far, allowing the potential for a much quicker redemption, and a much quicker process back to where they were.

It's a Klingon thing. It is one of the things that make the Klingons Klingons.
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Federation Commander Answer Guy

[pinecone]

Okay, I that makes sense. But why the changes to the hips themselves?

[Kang]

Despite the above explanation, I'm still not clear why they have a degraded crew.....
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[wedge_hammersteel]

I thought penal ships only had slave labor or subjugated empires as crew.

I didnt know about the "command" punishment part.

[mjwest]

Not everyone given a chance for honor necessarily wants it. Some leap at the chance to prove their mettle and regain their honor though life-threatening challenges. Many do not. Those Klingons who succumb to fatalism will not perform as well.

Also, don't forget those non-Klingon subjects. They know the reality of the situation. While most Klingon officers must only survive long enough to regain their honor, most non-Klingons are going to be there on long-term assignments. It is, effectively, a death sentence for most of them. And it is meant to be such. And those who believe they are condemned do not generally perform as well.

As a result, the penal ships do legitimately "earn" their degraded status.
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Federation Commander Answer Guy

[mjwest]

[pinecone]

EDIT: I meant "ships" not "hips" And I still would like an answer for this please.

[OGOPTIMUS]

Well, they do have a higher chance of mutiny, so why would you want a fully capable ship going rogue?

Plus, with the "lower quality subject races present on board, why should they get the best equipment, when it would do better in the hands of top of the line officers and crew?

Plus, the boom separation allows for the "loyal" Klingons to escape.

Maybe it's meant to be a form of "You screwed up, so to redeem yourself you can do these incredibly difficult missions with an inferior ship. If you perform well, and you will be treated well, if you perform badly...you will die."
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[Kang]

All nicely put, gentlemen. Thank you
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[Carthaginian]

[terryoc]

Tactically, the Klingon penal units have one really useful function:

Sacrifice.

The penal ships are cheaper (in terms of Point Value) than other ships. While they don't dish out damage as well as other ships do, they take damage just as well as a fully-capable ship. And they're unattractive targets, because shooting at a penal ship scores fewer points than doing the same amount of damage to a normal ship of the same class. This fills a gap in the Klingon fleet, since Klingon ships tend not to take damage all that well.
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"Captain" Terry O'Carroll, fourteen papers published including six best of issue
"Man, Terry, you are like a loophole seeking missle!" - Mike West