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Federation Admiral
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Dan Ibekwe
Commander


Joined: 08 Mar 2007
Posts: 451
Location: Manchester UK

PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Star Fleet Marines:Assault.
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Davyj0427
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Joined: 19 Feb 2009
Posts: 26

PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Appreciate the update Steve. Thanks for your hard work, I understand doing a job that you don't care for.
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Steve Cole
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Joined: 11 Oct 2006
Posts: 3052

PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did chapter 2 (one page) and the first page of chapter 3 yesterday. I had to stop and ask jay some questions about how he wanted to format titles. I don't want to have to go back and do them over.

Jay is discovering some format tricks that are saving me work. He finally figured out the tabs, which saved a ton of work. The one page of chapter 2 took over an hour (plus a second hour spent showing Jay how to do chapter 3) and had (let me go count) 41 corrections that Jean and I had to make.
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Savedfromwhat
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Joined: 23 Aug 2007
Posts: 639

PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That sounds like a great improvement. Thanks for the update Steve
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Dan Ibekwe
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Joined: 08 Mar 2007
Posts: 451
Location: Manchester UK

PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for all your hard work on this, Steve.
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Steve Cole
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am determined to finish Fed Admiral, now if I can, this fall if I have to. (We're up to page 20 and I'm waiting on Jay to send the file for 3.5 and 3.6). There are a lot of Jean issues and English issues, but those are mostly a matter of fixing them on the run in the current file and telling Jay to be sure they're fixed in all future files. (In theory, he sends me 4 new pages per day, learning the lessons of previous days as to what needs to be fixed or reformatted). The capitalization issue is one of hammering it through, but is mostly a matter of deciding if this or that gets capped and running a search/replace. There are cases where two interchangeable terms are used when one should be standard (e.g. Maintenance Cost vs Maintenance Expense) but gosh, that never happens in SFB, now does it? There are some format things (we want a standard way of doing cross references, not multiple formats). Again, those are things we discover as we hit them and Jay fixes them in all future files. The tech block thing is all wrong (under it, if you have an FF and a DD, you have to research an FFS and DDS separately), but the fix replaces 3 or 4 paragraphs (the math-EP-d100 system is fine, but what you do and do not have to research is quirky). Biggest issue is semantic, making sure that both "rigid historical" and "make up whatever you want" scenarios are covered in each instance. I don't like the intel rule but the only thing that has to be added is a sentence at the first saying it's ok to just ignore it if you don't like it. (It's a cute mathematical thing but has nothing to do with how real world intel works, and I spent 17 years of my life doing real world intel, so it just irks me that it's so so so "wrong". As a gamer, I think it's just a lot of work for no real point, but if you want an intel system, this one will do.)
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Jean
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Joined: 18 Sep 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just want to chime in and say that poor Jay is getting all the standardization we've created in three years all at once! It is hard on him, but he's truly learning quickly and I think this will be a great book and lots of fun.

SVC and I are also having to learn the game terminology as we go, so there is a learning curve there as well.

We all want it done right from the start, so we're being super careful. This is no reflection on Jay -- think of it as trying to blend Wii Tennis and Wii Bowling. Many of the things look similar and they sort of work the same, but there are differences that we have to accommodate on both ends and we don't know the differences until we find them!

As I explained to a gamer friend once, the problem in gaming comes about when the GM reads a rule one way and the player reads it a different way. The player plans actions based on his reading and the GM plans based on his reading. Only when things don't go as expected do the folks realize that there's an issue. Then they iron things out and life goes on. Smile
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Savedfromwhat
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Joined: 23 Aug 2007
Posts: 639

PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 8:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jean... Diplomat, editor, Webmom. Enough said Smile
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Davyj0427
Lieutenant JG


Joined: 19 Feb 2009
Posts: 26

PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 9:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Glad I got into nursing and not game design, I wouldn't be able to understand it much less do it. Again thanks for you hard work and I really cant wait to see the finished product.
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Steve Cole
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Joined: 11 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I got onto page 27 yesterday (out of maybe 250). That's through rule 3.6, leaving some "work to be done" in earlier sections. Jay sent me 3.7 but I haven't had time to work on it yet today, but I do plan to. Jay is learning very rapidly how to fix things. Not perfect yet, but getting there, and there are still glitches where his rules don't match SFU (requiring a line or two or a paragraph or two of fixes). No idea of a publication date. This thing is much farther from publication than I thought it was, and I fear I'll run out of time. Already getting a LOT of pressure from the partners to set this aside or at least slow it down to 2-3 pages a day and move on to other projects. Given the math, doing this between now and Origins is going to cost us at least SFMA and very likely a second product from the published "Now thorugh origins" schedule.
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Steve Cole
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Three more pages (through 29). These three covered the supply system. It's VERY complex compared to F&E, an extraordinary amount of fuss and bother for something that (to my mind) the staff weenies take care of without bothering us command-grade combat officers. I know enough not to outrun my supplies, so why should I have to do all of this work? The system is seriously different from F&E, which concerns me. It also concerns me that the system Jay is coming up with is going to generation zillions of "new planets" not on the F&E map, and I am not sure that I want them in the gazetteer. I certainly have no time to vette them. There is also the point that a "marked on the map planet" in F&E generates more money than six blank hexes, each with 50 colony planets, and yet Jay's system is drawing supply from those newly named and generated colony planets. This leads to a mountain of concern. His system won't work without an entire book of new maps with zillions of new colony worlds, and I'm simply NOT going to make those maps and colony worlds an official part of the SFU knowledgebase.
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JonPerry
Lieutenant SG


Joined: 12 Jul 2010
Posts: 127

PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2011 5:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
It also concerns me that the system Jay is coming up with is going to generation zillions of "new planets" not on the F&E map

Wouldn't it have to, though? The F&E map is unsuitable to run campaigns off of, as it isn't granular enough. I'd have thought you'd need the additional planets, mining colonies, etc.

Quote:
and I am not sure that I want them in the gazetteer

This statement suggests that these "zillions of new planets" are fixed? That they are predetermined by Fed Admiral? That they are not generated on the fly at the start of a gaming group's campaign? Or am I interpreting that incorrectly?
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Steve Cole
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2011 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would guess that any campaign can generate planets, but Jay's earlier pages refer to included sample-suggested-scenario maps, which apparently include planets he generated. None of these planets are not going become official.

I really cannot grasp why a campaign, by definition, obviously needs lots more planets.

The F&E ecoomic system says that a "small" planet generates 2 EPs.

A proviince of six hexes and 300 "colonies" generates 2 EPs.

So a colony generates 0.0067 EPs.

I fail to see how this colony is supporting ships, or is even relevant to any rational supplygrid or ecoomic system.

Basically, Jay's system surrounds an arc welder with fireflies that you cannot even see in the glare of the arc welder. I am not grasping how the system could possibly function.

But whatever. I don't have to play this.

Waiting this morning for the next file from Jay, but the math on page progress isn't looking great. I strongly suspect that unless things really start to accelerate, we're looking at a 250-page project that's going to progress at about 6 pages a week through Origins and then get back to 25 pages per week. That won't be my decision, and She Who Makes That Decision doesn't read this BBS. Maybe if you emailed her of your enthusiam and support for this project, she'd taking a less dim view.
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JonPerry
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Joined: 12 Jul 2010
Posts: 127

PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2011 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not knowing what the $$/supply system in FA looks like, and not wishing to stick my nose into the business of She Who Is Referred To In Caps, I'll just comment on this -

Quote:
I really cannot grasp why a campaign, by definition, obviously needs lots more planets.

We need things to fight over. If my campaign is a sector commander level campaign on the Romulan border, what is there to fight over? Of all of the border sectors in Romulan space (Fed border, Gorn border, ISC border), there is a single F&E level world. The Gorn don't have any F&E level worlds in their Romulan border sectors. The ISC don't have any F&E level worlds in their border sectors. So something needs to be there. I should say that I'm assuming "planet" is a generic word that can refer to any "fixed point of interest" in space. A mining asteroid, a scientific outpost on a moon, an agricultural colony on a planet, etc.

Do you need 300 per sector? No thank you. Really. I'd hope that number isn't "official", either in F&E or in FA. If I move up from a sector level campaign to a front level campaign, would that mean thousands of planets/locations? Please say no.

But campaigns do need more than what a high level F&E map has to offer.
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Steve Cole
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2011 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I got two pages (and change) done today, but ran into a roadblock, so two pages is all we get today.

Jay's next section is his command rating thing. He made up a whole new system which is radically different from the one used by SFB and F&E, and needs to do it over using the SFB-F&E system. (His system produces totally different fleets, and won't work. Licensing requires a degree of consistency between all of the games of the universe, and if he's going to have a command system, it has to produce the same results.)

Also, his scenario set up system needs to cover SFB, FC, and Starmada (not just FC) which simply means whenever he says "FC" he needs to replace that with "FC, SFB, or Starmada" but I will let him do that rather than taking a whole day to do it for him.
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