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Pick a theme for ships of 2014
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What theme should we pick?
Escorts
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Commando ships
36%
 36%  [ 11 ]
Scouts
13%
 13%  [ 4 ]
Carriers (even if we're still struggling with fighter rules)
13%
 13%  [ 4 ]
Random request for each empire as their turn arrives
10%
 10%  [ 3 ]
Something else entirely (tell me what)
26%
 26%  [ 8 ]
Total Votes : 30

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Monty
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Joined: 23 Aug 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 3:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I voted random when each empire comes up. Diversity over cookie cutter.
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Burning Chrome
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Diversity in itself is overated.

Commando ships (with the bonus of diversity being included).

Got to have the Klingon G variants. It would be cool to see the Pod options for the D5G.

Out of curiousity, has there ever been a point in published Klingon history that a T7 or T6 was configured with dual Commando Pods?
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Rags
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I voted for something different, however my different is similar to the commando ship option favoured by many. If the empire doesn't have a commando ship published, I believe that should be the published ship. For those empires that already have a commando ship in a prior issue of Communique then the priority would be another class they are currently missing, such as the survey ship idea that Dal mentioned.

Only a handful of commando ships have been published. Frax DWG and CWG (Communique 54 & 60), Hydran Cataphract (4Cool, Klingon D5G (46) and the Kzinti MCG (60). The Andromedan, Federation, Gorn, ISC, Lyran, Orion, Romulan, Seltorian, Tholian, Vudar and WYN fleets all currently lack a published commando ship. Although the MSC lists the Fed NCT as being in issue 85, it doesn't appear to be. That issue was when the change to only one ship per issue occurred, so it is possible the NCT had been intended to be included prior to the change.

For some empires the survey ships would address the special sensor imbalance mentioned by DNordeen. For example the Hydran Outrider (3 special sensors), Gorn Survey Cruiser (4) and ISC Survey Cruiser (4). However some empires (Klingon, Kzinti etc) only have two special sensors. One option for survey ships might be to give those designs that operated in wartime as light carriers a "Borders of Madness" box on the shipcard, similar to the LDR box on Federation Commander Lyran ship cards or the wartime fighter box found on appropriate survey ship SSDs in SFB. With playtest carriers only published for the Federation, Klingons, Kzinti and Lyrans this could be a way to provide carriers to some of the other empires.

Escorts would be my least preferred option. There are already at least fifteen aegis equiped escorts published in Communique. The Federation DWE and CLE (Communique 79 & 80), Frax CWE, FFE and DWE (52, 58 & 85), Gorn BDE (92), Hydran DWE (84), Klingon F6E and F5E (81 & 90), Kzinti MEC (74), ISC DE (87), Lyran DWE (82), Romulan Skyhawk-E (91), Seltorian DDE (93) and the Tholian DE (83). The only races I am seeing without a dedicated escort published in Communique are the Andromedans, Orions, Vudar and WYN (most of which are a bit 'differant' with their ships). Outside of Communique there are escorts for most of empires available from Boosters #34 and #92, including the WYN and Vudar.
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Steve Cole
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, I had forgotten all about the Fed NCT but it's in the file ready to print! If we go that direction, maybe I saved some work?

I'm kinda liking the idea of: "each empire gets what they don't have, commando ships being first in line and survey ships second in line."

ON THE OTHER HAND, so far as I can tell on a quick survey there are 11 empires lacking a commando ship. If we skip the three that have one already, we could wrap up the commando ships in a single year and use December for the special Christmas ship.
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Nerroth
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is the idea of doing two Ship Cards per issue a non-starter?

If there was room for two Ship Cards per issue, and if there were to be only one SR class per empire, the January issue could get the Fed NCT and one of the Klingon survey hulls (since the Feds already have the GSC, and so could skip over the CLS or NSR for now).

That way, the list of missing survey and commando ships could both be chipped away at over the course of the coming year.


Also, I was wondering if some of the more recently-published SRs might be an option for FC, when the time comes to pick one for such-and-such an empire. For example, the Kzintis got an upgraded survey ship, the SRI, in Module R12. That ship might work out better for them here than the original SR would.

(Had there been room for more than one SR per empire, I would have asked for the Romulans to get the Screech Owl from R11 presented with the cargo pallet of the Pioneer Eagle; but since they already have a SparrowHawk-C available as a Ship Card in FC, there'd be no need to worry about adding another SR to their ranks just yet.)
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mjwest
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gary,

The decision to move to a single ship per issue was a deliberate, carefully considered decision. It was done for a reason. (I was not part of the decision process, but I can assure you it was made for a reason.)

Each new ship created for Communique is a piece of work that requires Steve's time that isn't spent on something else making money. Even before the change to a single ship per issue, the idea was always "one new; one reprint; one large scale reprint". He was never really supposed to do more than one new ship per issue at any time. The fact that he got excited and generous for quite a while should not be held against him now that he has had to reign it back in to the one new ship per issue that was always supposed to be the plan.

So, the real change is that we are no longer getting any of the reprints. And the reason for that is because they have already done all of the reprints they wanted to do. We are still getting the one new ship per issue that was always intended.
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jeffery smith
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Joined: 11 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 10:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

not to mention the fact that he is giving these to us instead of using them In the next FC product that would make ABD money. While we are all grateful for this gift from Steve this is not something you see game companies doing these days.
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Nerroth
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 10:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fair points - with only so much design time to go around, I agree that more of it would be best spent on other products.

In that case, I guess SRs can wait until 2015, if commando ships are indeed set to go first.
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Steve Cole
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JAN-FEDERATION: The lost NCT that was supposed to be in Comm 85

KLINGON: they have a D5G so SKIP THEM.

FEB-ROMULAN: Commando version of SkyHawk

KZINTI: Commando cruiser in Comm 60 so SKIP THEM

MAR-GORN: heavy destroyer commando or battle destroyer commando

APR-THOLIAN: commando PC

MAY-ORION: commando version of some ship, not sure which, not BR, maybe DW or SLAV

HYDRAN: command cruiser in Comm 48, so SKIP THEM

JUNE-ANDRO: Diamondback, the commando version of Cobra

JULY-LYRAN: commando war cruiser

AUG-WYN: Commando version of DW

SEPT-ISC: ommando version of CL.

OCT: SELTORIAN: commando version of DD

NOV VUDAR: commando version of DW.

DECEMBER: special Christmas ship
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Nerroth
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for posting the list.

Quote:
FEB-ROMULAN: Commando version of SkyHawk


Could the SparrowHawk-G be an option instead, or would it be too big of a ship relative to other CWGs?

Quote:
MAY-ORION: commando version of some ship, not sure which, not BR, maybe DW or SLAV


Of the two maybes, the Viking might be the most interesting, not least with its distinct hull shape.
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mjwest
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nerroth wrote:
Thanks for posting the list.

Quote:
FEB-ROMULAN: Commando version of SkyHawk


Could the SparrowHawk-G be an option instead, or would it be too big of a ship relative to other CWGs?


The SPG (along with the Klingon D6G and Romulan KRG) carry too many troops in comparison to the other ships. The Romulans exemplify the problem a few empires have. The Romulans have the following commando ships:
SPG (48 marines)
SKG (24 marines)
SEG (25 marines)
CE (24 marines)
QCE (24 marines)
COH (24 marines)
KRG (48 marines)

They have nothing in the middle. Without a middle ground, you have to either select something from the high end or the low end. In the end, they get the best of the low end (the SKG).

As an aside, this problem afflicts several of the empires. It is true of the Romulans, Orions, and Tholians. The Seltorians and Vudar only have small commando ships.

Nerroth wrote:
Quote:
MAY-ORION: commando version of some ship, not sure which, not BR, maybe DW or SLAV


Of the two maybes, the Viking might be the most interesting, not least with its distinct hull shape.


The BRC has 36 marines, so it is on the high side. That would be more than everyone else. Since Steve doesn't want the BRC, then the only other choice is the Viking, interesting or not. (There is no commando variant of the DW.) The Viking has the same number of marines (24) as the smaller ships being published.
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Steve Cole
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We may do survey ships in Captain's Log someday. I'm not sure (and too busy to go look up) what we had planned for CL48 and whether that can or can't be delayed in favor of survey ships.
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Nerroth
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

According to the recent issues of Communique, CL48 was going to include an FC take on the C6 empires. (Could that mean a CW and DW for each empire, to help playtesters try out the new rules?)

If so, I'd sooner want to see that remain in place this time around, and let the survey cruisers find some other slot further down the line. Although, I suppose this might open the door for Carnivon and Alpha-Paravian SR Ship Cards at some later stage...


Oh, speaking of the C6 empires: if they are to be previewed in CL48, could that allow a commando ship for each of those fleets to be added to the Communique list? Or would they have to wait until a "lost empires" module/ePack/etc was formally published for FC?

But then, there is enough room taken up with the current Alpha empires' commando hulls to run through the end of 2014; so I guess that even if there were to be a pair of slots assigned to these two factions, each would have to wait until 2015 to be gotten around to.
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Steve Cole
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 21, 2013 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yeah, that's what I couldn't put my memory finger on.
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Monty
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 21, 2013 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How long does it take to play-test each of the ships that get added?
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