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A question about new EM rule
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jmt
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Joined: 08 Oct 2006
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Location: Plano, TX

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 9:03 pm    Post subject: A question about new EM rule Reply with quote

EM is declared at the end of the Defensive Fire Phase, but ships do not get the benefit (i.e. "go evasive") until the end of the subsequent Direct Fire Phase.

Does this mean that in the interim Direct Fire Phase, the ship that announced EM can still fire its weapons?
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jmt
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Joined: 08 Oct 2006
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Location: Plano, TX

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Never mine.

mjwest answered it here.

Yes you can fire in the Direct Fire Phase, before EM takes effect.
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Mike
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 2:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

edited

Last edited by Mike on Thu Aug 14, 2008 3:01 am; edited 1 time in total
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defurusu
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Joined: 20 Nov 2006
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Location: London, UK

PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
hould be able to launch seeking weapons during the Launch Phase at the end of the Impulse.

erm no, that's not how I read it.

In this case, I take 'the end of the subsequent Direct Fire Phase' to mean 'the end of the subsequent Offensive Fire Phase', i.e. the one in the same Impulse as the Defensive Fire Phase during which you declare EM, but before the opportunity to launch seeking weapons.
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mjwest
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 1:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you declare EM at the end of the Defensive Fire phase, then it will take effect at the end of the Offensive Direct-Fire phase. This means the EMing ship will be under the limitations of EM for the Other Functions and Launch phases.

So, while the ship that has declared EM gets one last chance to fire his direct-fire weapons, he may not use transporters or tractors, and he may not launch seeking weapons or shuttles.
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Archduke Russell John I
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The more I think about this decision the worse I think it was.
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bobrunnicles
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Joined: 26 Jun 2008
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Location: Delray Beach, FL

PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Archduke Russell John I wrote:
The more I think about this decision the worse I think it was.


I concur.
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junior
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Archduke Russell John I wrote:
The more I think about this decision the worse I think it was.


Posting "this is dumb" isn't going to persuade anyone to your line of thinking. Please elaborate on why exactly you think it was a bad idea.
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jmt
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 10:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We just played scenario 111 (the three-way Kzin, Federation, and Orion one) using the new EM rule. The play style was different, one tended to hang back more; staying in the 9-15 range band before declaring EM.

Other than that, there wasn't much different. However, everyone did re-read the EM rules much more closely and when a ship goes on EM, it tended to become a drone magnet (since EM prevents tractors and phasers as anti-drone measures). Also, the drone flingers tended to not use EM as much - the Orion stayed in EM most of the game as his LR load out was 1 center line PH1 and 2 Plasma F wing mounts. Those self guiding plasma torps are good for this.
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The_Rock
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Joined: 16 Jul 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 12:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Archduke Russell John I wrote:
The more I think about this decision the worse I think it was.


Yes. It was poorly thought out. I am certain the people making it have not considered the full range of the implications. Further, that no play-testing was done to change a 3-year old rule just because one person apparently had difficulty winning with Federation ships.
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The_Rock
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 12:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Probably the best example of why they don't get it is in the wording of the ruling itself - "... one last shot..." - combined with the choice to make the phase of activation the end of direct fire.

The weakest and most difficult weapons to use in FC are plasma. This ruling will have, however, the most dramatic effect on plasma ships. I am fairly sure that the persons responsible for this ruling neither understand this nor took it into consideration.

The photon (though it may be replaced by the PPD) is the best weapon in FC and the Federation, in turn, is probably the strongest race and the easiest to play. Yet, it was this weapon and this race the ruling was intended to help.
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pinecone
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Joined: 03 May 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 1:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

HB, Web Caster, and ESG are all better.
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The_Rock
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 1:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Web caster is certainly better - currently the best system in the game - if not used as a weapon. If you just mean web fist, it is not close.

Saying ESGs are better is just not accepting their limitations. Under the same logic that ESGs are better, fusions and plasma would also be better.

HBs just look better because they have big numbers on a chart. They really are not, but understanding why is not trivial. FC, like SFB, is all about thresholds. What do you need to commit to accomplish a goal? HBs have two weaknesses that result in needing more of them to accomplish the same goal (e.g., mission killing a ship) - 1. half their damage is "long term" (e.g. spread out), 2. they can only half-overload (spend 50% more power for 50% more damage - half of which, again, is "long term").
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mjwest
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 5:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The_Rock wrote:
The weakest and most difficult weapons to use in FC are plasma. This ruling will have, however, the most dramatic effect on plasma ships. I am fairly sure that the persons responsible for this ruling neither understand this nor took it into consideration.


I hope you appreciate irony. You are actually what pushed me over the edge to request the change. I bit my tongue for a while until you explained just how devistating EM truly is. You are the one that convinced me to request the change.
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storeylf
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Joined: 24 Jul 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 8:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The_Rock wrote:


The weakest and most difficult weapons to use in FC are plasma.


I don't get that, I would have said they are amongst the most powerful weapons in FC. They may ultimately be the weakest because they are so difficult to use, but not both weakest and most difficult which would mean they are weakest before difficulty of use was taken into account.
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