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Romulans (read: Plasmas)
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OGOPTIMUS
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Joined: 10 Nov 2006
Posts: 981

PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 7:45 pm    Post subject: Romulans (read: Plasmas) Reply with quote

Are Romulan ships rather hit or miss with Plasma torps? Do you need to launch plasmas in a good opportunity and then hope the target has run away or been moderately damaged while you spend 2-3 turns rearming (cloaked or not)? And are you screwed if the target is able to evade your torp(s)?

Is cloaking worth it? Have people found a large bennefit to using it?

They seem to run quite differently than Klingons or Feds, since their large weapons take a LONG time to reload, have no drones, and the older style ships seem to have fewer phasers, or at least weaker ones than ships of comparable size (though this may be due to the massive capabilities of the Plasmas).
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mjwest
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Joined: 08 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is what I have found from my experiences with plasma.

My opponent never went less than speed 24. Plasma hurts a lot in FC, with little recourse other than speed. When my opponent is speed 24, I find I use bolts a lot. When using bolts, look for range 10. If you can nick a range 10 shot, but keep out of 8, you will drive a photon player nuts. (This is not as important with a disruptor player. The disruptor player flat out won't have overloads if he is consistently going speed 24.)

Regardless, you are trying to force your opponent to take a shot before he wants to. Try and force the range 6-8 shot before they get into good range. If you have multiple plasmas, don't be afraid to "burn" one in seeking mode to set up a bolt with the rest. It reduces your total damage done, but forces him to take the seekers or take a bad shot.

If your opponent is going speed 16, you will still need to get close. Seeking plasma will only close on a speed 16+1 ship by one hex an impulse, and its power diminishes quickly. If it is going to hit, you need to be pretty close.

If your opponent is going speed 0 or 8, have fun killing him. You will control the range, and he won't be able to get away from the plasma. Don't ever expect to see your opponent going less than 24 unless you have empty tubes.

You need to be going fast. You need to try and control the range, and the only way you can do this is to go fast. Never go less than speed 16, and usually go speed 24. (Obviously, when I say "never" there are some exceptions.)

The reloading turns for a plasma ship shouldn't be too bad, as you can go as fast as you want while reloading. Plasmas are fairly easy to reload. There is one huge exception to this. When using small ships with multiple Pl-F, you may be forced to treat the weapon as a four turn arming weapon. You will likely be power starved on your third turn of arming, so don't engage until the following turn if you have any say in the matter. (I had never really used a Gorn BDD before, and that final turn of arming was brutal. I had power to run and arm plasma and that was it. I ended up running for that last turn.)

Quick-loading Pl-Fs are critically important. Even if not used, their threat is mandatory to keep the opponent honest. It also helps keep range up while you are completing your reloads.

Finally, I have intentionally avoided using erratic maneuvers in order to become more familiar with FC plasma. If you aren't intentionally restricting yourself, make good use of EM when facing an opponent with few (or no) drones during your reload turns.

Hope these help. This is what I have seen so far in trying to fly plasma ships. (I have done a KR, K7R, CR w/ 2xF, BDD all at fleet scale in duels.)
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Nerroth
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Joined: 08 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 10:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike,

Would you have any additional suggestions for ships carrying PPDs as wel las plasmas?


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mjwest
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 11:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unfortunately, no. I haven't had a chance to play with the ISC.

Also, I haven't use the cloak. With all the speed 24 running around, I just haven't had much of chance to try out the cloaking device.
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Paul B
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Joined: 27 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 12:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not too sure why people would be worried about the reloading turn for cloaked ships. In my recent battle with Feds versus Romulans, I'd unload a full spread of photon torps and phasers into a king eagle at range zero and barely breach his shields, if that. +4 to range and half damage means PH-1s will only do 2 or 3 points of damage even at point blank to cloaked ships.

I took some early losses and tried to battle back, but later on the romulan player just had his ships go speed zero during reloading turns because he knew my one or two ships couldn't really do any serious damage to him. First time I've conceded a game because it truly was pointless to continue.

Of course it didn't help that I spread out my damage a bit. But even so. I'd down a shield on a photon turn, he'd go super slow and by the time I'd reloaded he'd have half his shield repaired along with other major damage. And yeah, I could've waited until he decloaked until I fired, but then I'm limited to the same 3 turn cycle he is, so that seemed kinda dumb.

Quite annoying to say the least. But it's okay to be on the losing end of a battle once in a while.
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TJolley
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Joined: 25 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 3:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've found that if Romulans cloak they die..esp with Feds.

Feds just sit on top of them at range 0, hold all photons at full OL, and just pound them with phaser-1's until they die or or de-cloak..then they die from photon death.

Feds can almost always hold photons, move 16 and fire their phasers.
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Paul B
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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 6:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TJolley wrote:
I've found that if Romulans cloak they die..esp with Feds.

Feds just sit on top of them at range 0, hold all photons at full OL, and just pound them with phaser-1's until they die or or de-cloak..then they die from photon death.

Feds can almost always hold photons, move 16 and fire their phasers.


Ah, maybe I'm just playing it wrong. I could always try it again, and see how it goes. Though I'm more partial to the disruptor races.
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defurusu
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Joined: 20 Nov 2006
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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with Mike - it's mostly about forcing the Fed to take a 'bad' shot or at least denying them a good one. If the Fed hold their nerve this can be tricky.

Whether cloaking is truly suicide is dependent largely upon the opposing force in my experience - if they slow down and close in, then fail to blow you & your tractors up while you're fading in, then your plasma can still really hurt them.

Whether it's viable in the first place is dependent upon the Romulan forces - Eagles and maybe Hawks can, I'm a lot less convinced the Kestrels can unless the circumstances tolerate slow speeds. But don't forget the new-found flexibility regarding payment for the darn thing - you don't have to pay the huge cost for a whole turn, and you can even get the first couple of impulses of a turn for free, by having gone into cloak (and paid) late on the previous turn!

I'm really enjoying trying to make the Roms work, though am only a few games into it. Got serious mileage out of targetting power systems with directed damage yesterday, but have yet to enjoy the gravy of doing so with bolted S-torps at range 10.

My play group have commented that they play FC closer in than they did SFB (I'm not convinced this is true in my case as I always liked to get stuck in), and that this seems to make up a little for the faster typical speeds where plasma is concerned.
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TJolley
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Joined: 25 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paul B wrote:


Ah, maybe I'm just playing it wrong. I could always try it again, and see how it goes. Though I'm more partial to the disruptor races.


The problem with doing this with disruptor races is that they lack the 'crunch' power to blast the Romulans into little bitty bits with one volley.

Unless your can guarantee a kill in one shot, you will be eating plasma at range 0 with no hope of escape.

Now if it's a turn break, you KNOW the Romulan will uncloak, and you can manage to get and stay at Range 1, and you plot speed 24, and youhave enough power to accelerate every impulse, AND still have enough power left over to fire weapons, you can whack on him and out run the plasmas, then repeat the process until he dies. (good luck with that Smile )
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markgeorgetwo
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Joined: 21 Nov 2006
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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 8:00 pm    Post subject: post subject Reply with quote

I have found out that thats why in large battles you use more than one romulan ship.eg 3 to 6 king eagles also the same has for the kestrals ecept in romulan attack the KRC that carrys plasma ds so in theory in the last campaign game i cloaked and crepted up onto a fed cruiser with two others in support i decloaked and hit it from three sides this cruiser thought it was cool to hung above a cloaked king eagle. thats why you use more than three or if you have acess to other sites download the romulan storm bird. Twisted Evil Twisted Evil
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TJolley
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Joined: 25 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 9:04 pm    Post subject: Re: post subject Reply with quote

markgeorgetwo wrote:
I have found out that thats why in large battles you use more than one romulan ship.eg 3 to 6 king eagles also the same has for the kestrals ecept in romulan attack the KRC that carrys plasma ds .......


I'm assuming a 1-to-1 ratio of ships..if the Feds are outnumbered, then it depends, you may still be able to kill one, and maybe out-run the plasma from the others, depending on when the de-claoking occurs, range to other ships, etc.
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defurusu
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Joined: 20 Nov 2006
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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the Romulans are cruising round in lots of expensive toys like KEs and KRCs, it woudn't be a huge surprise if the Federation outnumber them!

I haven't tried a KE - CA duel, though at first thought it seems a very fair fight, with the CA having a slight advantage. Can the KE wriggle enough while cloaked to force a decisive error from the Fed? Or even just enough to decloak & launch before the photons can fire, then cloak again immediately?
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Scoutdad
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Joined: 09 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I our early playtesting of the Plasma rules, the CA almost always beat the KE - but it was often very close. If the more experienced player has the KE and the relative newcomer has the KE - then if can be a very exciting battle.

Hidden cloaking would tend to more than balance the battle, but let's not even go there...
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defurusu
Lieutenant JG


Joined: 20 Nov 2006
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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Even if FC had other things which you could keep secret (have to include this caveat as I can be seen begging for Q-ships on another thread), hidden cloaking is a huge can of worms. Definitely best left unopened, the alternative being to find a bigger can to fit them back in. It's bad enough in SFB!

Given that the points values rate the CA something like 5% higher, and the KE has paid something like 17% of its own points for the cloak, I would certainly expect the results to favour the Fed. Would be a little disappointed to hear it turned out to be 100% domination, mind.

I can see ways in which the Romulan can attempt to throw the Flathead off his stride, but obviously can't predict how effective they would be.

Must see if I can talk the locals into trying that match-up a few times. Twisted Evil
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terryoc
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Joined: 07 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2007 2:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've had the tar beaten out of me by a KE while flying a Federation CA, twice. Perhaps it's because the guy I was playing against is a Romulan from way back (and my photon dice suck).

When flying a disruptor ship against cloakers, you just have to use the same tactic as usual - keep hitting the same shield every turn until it goes down and you start scoring internals. You just need to do it a lot closer, like range 0 rather than 13-15.
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