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SFBF Continuation
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pinecone
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Joined: 03 May 2008
Posts: 1865
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 1:35 am    Post subject: SFBF Continuation Reply with quote

Will there be more sets of Star Fleet battle force? It's been eight years since the first. I'd like to see the Hydrans, Lyrans, WYN, ISC, Andromeans, Monsters, Lots more Federation ships ( Very Happy ), and even Seletorians. But It doesn't seem like they are working to make a new set. Sad
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Scoutdad
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Joined: 09 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steve wants to do another set (well, a few expansions for the existing set actually), but there are a few problems:
1) Unlike Fed Comm or SFB where you can use POD (Print on Demand) for many of the indiviual items as they are needed - SFBF requires that the cards all be printed in advance.
2) Most (if not all) printing companies capable of printing the type of cards needed for SFBF have strict rules about minimum print runs. The days of a print shop printing and cutting a run of 50 or so sets of cards are long gone.
3) The minimum print run is probably enough cards to last ADB for the rest of the forseeable future. It's not a hard business decision when you have to tie up a large portion of your working captial in a venture that will take a dozen (or more) years to show a return.

Although, in all fairness to Steve - he has stated many times that if anyone wants to front $15 or 20 thousand dollars for the print run, he'd do SFBF-s tomorrow and provide the financier a portion of each sale for the next umpteen years until the investment has been paid off. Smile
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pinecone
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If that's the case, then how was the first set made?
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mjwest
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Joined: 08 Oct 2006
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Location: Dallas, Texas

PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The first set was made because ADB fronted that $15K.

Please keep a couple things in mind:
1) When SFBF first came out, ADB had to do ALL of their products this way. Now, with their POD capabilities, that makes some of their products (SFB, FC, xPD) much more cost effective.

2) ADB had fewer product lines when SFBF first came out. Since then, more product lines have been introduced and have taken off fairly well. (The headliner, of course, being Federation Commander.) As a result, with much more cost effective options available for ADB to spend their time on, it becomes difficult to justify such costly investments.

That all said, Steve had been on record as saying he really wants to do more expansions of SFBF. He just hasn't found a cost effective way to do it.
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pinecone
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Couldn't they print all of the expansions in one run if it made things more cost effective?
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djdood
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Joined: 01 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It would still be 15K sitting in their warehouse for years and years, waiting to sell. SFBF sells, but not anywhere near as well as FedCom has. Another problem is that Texas (where ADB is based) has "inventory taxes", so ADB would be paying taxes on all those unsold, pre-printed SFBF expansions.

A real tough nut to crack.

It's a business (and SVC, Leanna, and Petrick's livelihood), so they have to do things that make money. Usually the things that make money also please the fanbase. However, all the time and energy that went into FedCom disappointed some of the long-time SFB players, who felt it was stealing new products from "their game". The PD role-playing people wondered what it would do to their chances of ever seeing PD-Feds. Some of the long-suffering F&E folks were downright seriously ticked-off, since it meant even longer before they would get their expansions. Etc. Etc.

I'm sure SVC will eventually figure out a way, but like the others have said, he puts his energy into what will keep ADB solvent for the near and long term.
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pinecone
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It probably hasn't sold as well because there's no continuation of it, and thus not much support.
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djdood
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe, but I think it just has a narrow market.
The Pokemon and Magic people won't touch it, because of the subject matter.
The hardcore war-game people won't touch it because it's a card game.

I never bought it, and I'm a prime target. I was always waiting for SFB-lite, and I got FedCom instead (which was much more what I wanted, even though I didn't know what I wanted).

IIRC, there was an earlier SFU card game that came out in the TFG days. I think it pretty much died, right out of the gate.
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pinecone
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I play pokemon TCG, and I play SFBF too. Then again, I'm a fan of Star Trek
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Scoutdad
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 3:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

djdood wrote:

I never bought it, and I'm a prime target...


Will, you should consider it. I think every member of Battlegroup Murfreesboro has a copy of it and it's really a lot of fun (plus SVC could use the revenue... Smile )

The first card game (Star Fleet Missions did die right out of the gate... for good reason.
I've tried multiple times and multiple ways to get the local non-SFB'ers interested in SFBF, but to no avail. As you surmised, those are generally the reasons given.
The Pokemon / M:tG crowd refuse to look at it due to the subject matter and the wargamers refuse to even give it a look-see because its a card game.
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Savedfromwhat
Commander


Joined: 23 Aug 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 5:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SFBF Has many similarites to a game that someone showed me many years ago called Modern Naval Battles, maybe Modern naval Combat I can't remember. Either way I always wanted to see a Star Trek version of the game but could never see it work as there were no fighters etc. Well, a few years ago I saw SFBF and fell in love with the whole universe. It is a fun game with great artwork. I recommend it to everyone who enjoys the SFU.
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TJolley
Lieutenant Commander


Joined: 25 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Savedfromwhat wrote:
SFBF Has many similarites to a game that someone showed me many years ago called Modern Naval Battles


Yup! It's Modern Naval Battles..I have that game..awesome product, too bad it went the way of the Dodo
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Scoutdad
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Posts: 4460
Location: Middle Tennessee

PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Todd, the game is now available as a download (if you don't mind printing / assembling your own cards) and can be found here:

http://www.relativerange.com/Relative_Range/Cold_War_Naval_Battles.html
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Mike
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 1:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds a lot like the old Naval War from Avalon Hill. That was a fun card game to play. SFBF has a lot of similarities to it.
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Bolo_MK_XL
Commander


Joined: 16 Jan 2007
Posts: 785
Location: North Carolina

PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naval War was first released by a company called Heritage (still have a deck from that company) ---

Its nice that AV picked it up and kept it in circulation, its also good it wasn't their creation so they didn't have the chance to over engineer it ---
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