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Evasive Maneuvers proposal
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pauls
Lieutenant JG


Joined: 16 Jul 2007
Posts: 39

PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 3:37 pm    Post subject: EM protects against tractors? Reply with quote

Am I missing something from Coms or just a rule I'm overlooking I can't find anything in my rulebook to stop a ship attempting to tractor a ship that is EM'ing. I can see (2D4b stops an EM'ing ship being boarded or boarding or using tractors itself but no mention of any protection)

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junior
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Joined: 08 May 2007
Posts: 803

PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's in the main rule book. I can't quote you the exact paragraph because I don't have my book handy, but that's where it's found.

Instead of the EM section, it might be in the Tractor Beam rules. So you might want to check there.
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Davec_24
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Joined: 16 Jul 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

2D4b says that: "A ship which is maneuvering evasively cannot: fire or launch any weapons, launch or recover any shuttlecraft, control seeking weapons, lay web, operate transporters, be boarded by transporters, use tractor beams, dock, land on a planet or other body, or be tractored." Hope that helps.
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Pinkfluffychicken
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Joined: 08 Aug 2007
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Location: Kingston-upon-Thames

PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Um, I thought you COULD tractor an EMing ship in FC, in contrast with SFB, where you couldn't...

Could easily be wrong about this.
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Davec_24
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, that was taken from the Revision 4 rulebook, rule (2D4b). There may have been something in Briefing 1 or Communique about this but I'm not sure. As far as I can see, the tractor rules themselves don't make mention of EM, though the EM rules do mention that you can't be tractored. I presume that this would also break a tractor lock if you were already tractored and then engaged EM, since it says you "cannot be tractored" (I would read this as "you can't be tractored at all" rather than just "nobody can grab you on a new tractor once you're in EM" - could be wrong about this though).
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mjwest
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Joined: 08 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PFC, you got that backwards. SFB rule (G7.922) says that if a ship using EM is tractored (which means it can happen), the effects of EM stop immediately. Federation Commander expressly prohibits a ship using Evasive Maneuvers from being tractored in the first place.

(2D4b) specifically restricts a ship under Evasive Maneuvers for either using their own tractors, or being tractored. (2D4e) says that a ship held in a tractor beam (or operating a tractor beam) may not use Evasive Maneuvers.

So, in Federation Commander,
- You may not be tractored if you are using Evasive Maneuvers.
- You may not use Evasive Maneuvers if you are currently in a tractor.
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Davec_24
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Indeed it does say you can't use EM if you are being held in (or holding something in) a tractor beam - thanks for pointing that out Mike. A case of RTM just then, I think... Embarassed
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Kang
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Joined: 23 Sep 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mjwest wrote:
(2D4b) specifically restricts a ship under Evasive Maneuvers for either using their own tractors, or being tractored.

That also means that if you are holding an impacted drone in a tractor, then go EM, then that tractor will fail and you will be hit by the drone.
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Davec_24
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Indeed, this is true as it breaks your own tractor beam, maybe EM isn't a great plan if you have loads of drones on a tractor beam, unless you can pick them all off with phasers before you go to EM. I suppose you'd be jinking around so much in EM that you just can't keep a steady beam - that and/or the drone would probably smack into your shields because you're moving lots or something like that, and then blow up anyway - the end result is the same either way. Wink
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Kang
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Davec_24 wrote:
.....EM isn't a great plan if you have loads of drones on a tractor beam, unless you can pick them all off with phasers before you go to EM.


Which is a good point - was it clarified in any of the recent EM discussions [or even older ones] just when the tractors are broken - as it's declared, or as it takes effect?

That is, under the new rule, it would be immediately after the Direct Fire Phase, thus giving you one last chance to use Defensive Fire - I would say that EM takes effect in its entirety, including breaking tractors, losing Drone control etc. - at that point.

This may sound like a stupid question but I do like to be clear before the heat of battle Wink
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OGOPTIMUS
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, it would be "Defensive Fire" (and the fire actually occurring in the Offensive Direct-Fire Phase just before EM go active) only if the drones were being held at range 1 in tractors. EM is declared at the END of the Defensive Fire Phase, so after you've used ADDs, any phasers, and tractors. So if those drones have impacted and you've held them in tractors and then you go evasive, they're going to hit and there's no defensive fire. OUCH.
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Davec_24
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So that means also that you get to shoot at the drones and *then* make up your mind whether you're going to go into EM. The amount of drones you have on tractor beams could well be a strongly influential factor in that decision. Wink
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Pinkfluffychicken
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

chuckle. Thanks, mjw.
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OGOPTIMUS
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Davec_24 wrote:
So that means also that you get to shoot at the drones and *then* make up your mind whether you're going to go into EM. The amount of drones you have on tractor beams could well be a strongly influential factor in that decision. Wink


To be fair, you always could. At least according to how I read the rules:

Rule (2D4a) Energy Cost: At the end of the Defensive Fire Phase (1E2c) of any Impulse, you may announce Evasive Maneuvers...

So you can shoot at drones with ADDs and phasers, and then use EM.

This is also explained in Rule (1E2c) After Step 3, the last paragraph (one sentence) before (1E2d) Offensive Direct-Fire Phase: After all seeking weapon damage is resolved, the ship has the option to use Evasive Maneuvering (2D4).
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Davec_24
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, that's true. I had just meant to point out that you didn't have to declare EM and then have "one last chance" for defensive fire and if that didn't work then the drones would hit you. It's more the other way round I suppose - you get your "last chance" and then get to make the call on whether to EM or not. You are indeed correct though - doing this was possible both under the "old" and "new" EM rules since the defensive fire phase itself and the declaration of EM has not changed.
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