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Clarification for 'The Art of Duty'
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Kang
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Joined: 23 Sep 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 6:21 am    Post subject: Clarification for 'The Art of Duty' Reply with quote

We have just played the scenario 'The Art of Duty' (8RA3) from Romulan Attack .

In the Special Rules, (8RA3d), it says that the War Eagles
begin 'stopped' and cloaked, and must pay for cloaking for the first four impulses.

1) Does this mean that they must spend Turn #1 stopped, or does it simply mean that they begin the game without turn or slip modes fulfilled?

2) Can the ships voluntarily drop the cloak in Impulse #1 [obviously with no refund] or is the rule intended to mean that they must remain cloaked for the first four impulses?

3) As the ships begin cloaked, I presume that they have paid their cloak cost for Imp #8 of Turn 0, so there is no fade period in Imp #1 of Turn 1. However, when do the ships then pay the 4 impulse cloak cost and when is that effective until - i.e. when do they have to pay again?
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junior
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 6:30 am    Post subject: Re: Clarification for 'The Art of Duty' Reply with quote

Kang wrote:
We have just played the scenario 'The Art of Duty' (8RA3) from Romulan Attack .

In the Special Rules, (8RA3d), it says that the War Eagles
begin 'stopped' and cloaked, and must pay for cloaking for the first four impulses.

1) Does this mean that they must spend Turn #1 stopped, or does it simply mean that they begin the game without turn or slip modes fulfilled?


I'm not 100% on this, but I believe it means that they must spend Turn #1 stopped. There was a fiction story associated with this scenario in a Captains Log a while back, and basically the Romulans botched the ambush of the ship that was supposed to be checking the sensors (the Federation ships got switched, and it screwed things up). As a result, some of the Romulans got caught flat-footed when the plan went wrong.

Quote:
2) Can the ships voluntarily drop the cloak in Impulse #1 [obviously with no refund] or is the rule intended to mean that they must remain cloaked for the first four impulses?


Yes, you can drop cloak on Impulse #1. You merely are required to pay for at least four impulses of cloaking.

Quote:
3) As the ships begin cloaked, I presume that they have paid their cloak cost for Imp #8 of Turn 0, so there is no fade period in Imp #1 of Turn 1. However, when do the ships then pay the 4 impulse cloak cost and when is that effective until - i.e. when do they have to pay again?


The Romulan ships in question have been waiting cloaked quite a while to ambush a Federation vessel. So no, there is no fade period.
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Kang
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 7:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Excellent, thanks for that. I'd forgotten it was a CL scenario - I must dig it out [I have them all Smile]

What do you think about that last part of my final question - when do they have to pay for the cloak again?
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Savedfromwhat
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The cloak rules state that once you pay the four impulse cost you must pay each impulse after the initial 4 or you will decloak... So don't forget Smile
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Kang
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Savedfromwhat wrote:
The cloak rules state that once you pay the four impulse cost you must pay each impulse after the initial 4 or you will decloak... So don't forget Smile

Aye - but in which impulse - 4 or 5?
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silent bob
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IIRC (dont have books in front of me) you pay to upkeep cloak in the other functions phase, so would be end of impulse 4 you pay to keep it up. if you dont pay then you start your fade in.
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Paul Grogan
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The way we played it last night was that the Romulan ships had to pay for their cloak in Impulses 1-4. Thats in the scenario rules. They are not allowed to decloak earlier than that. This is not the same as the rules when you go into cloak, where you have to pay for 4 turns worth but may choose to decloak early.

So essentially, on Impulses 1-4, the romulan ships have to pay for the cloak in the "Other" part. On Impulse 5, they are still cloaked but could choose not to pay to keep it up, meaning they start to fade in.
If they do, seeking weapons can be targetted at them on Impulse 5, since launching happens after cloaks.

Impulse 6 they are fading in and if shot at by direct fire, they get the bonuses for fading. In the other functions step of Impulse 6 they become fully visible.

The earliest time they can fire direct fire weapons themselves is Impulse 7.


As for the movement, the scenario says that they begin the scenario "Stopped", it doesnt say they have to remain stopped for the entire first turn, so looking up what Stopped means, I ruled that this meant their turn mode and sideslip were zero, but they could set any speed they wanted to on turn 1.
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junior
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paul Grogan wrote:
As for the movement, the scenario says that they begin the scenario "Stopped", it doesnt say they have to remain stopped for the entire first turn, so looking up what Stopped means, I ruled that this meant their turn mode and sideslip were zero, but they could set any speed they wanted to on turn 1.


They should also be required to move straight ahead on their first move (this is a requirement when coming out of "stopped").
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Paul Grogan
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

junior wrote:
They should also be required to move straight ahead on their first move (this is a requirement when coming out of "stopped").


Thats kinda what I implied by saying their turn mode and sideslip mode were at zero.

However, with my new rules knowledge, they could set a speed of 8 and then on their first actual movement, buy a point of decelleration, not move, gain 1 turn mode counter, do the same thing next time for 2 turn mode counters, so when they move on impulse 3, they could actually turn in the hex before they move out of it. I think
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pinecone
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Or set a speed of zero, accelerate, decelerate, and fullfill the turn mode much more easily.
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silent bob
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 4:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paul Grogan wrote:
The way we played it last night was that the Romulan ships had to pay for their cloak in Impulses 1-4. Thats in the scenario rules. They are not allowed to decloak earlier than that. This is not the same as the rules when you go into cloak, where you have to pay for 4 turns worth but may choose to decloak early.

So essentially, on Impulses 1-4, the romulan ships have to pay for the cloak in the "Other" part. On Impulse 5, they are still cloaked but could choose not to pay to keep it up, meaning they start to fade in.
If they do, seeking weapons can be targetted at them on Impulse 5, since launching happens after cloaks.

Impulse 6 they are fading in and if shot at by direct fire, they get the bonuses for fading. In the other functions step of Impulse 6 they become fully visible.

The earliest time they can fire direct fire weapons themselves is Impulse 7.


As for the movement, the scenario says that they begin the scenario "Stopped", it doesnt say they have to remain stopped for the entire first turn, so looking up what Stopped means, I ruled that this meant their turn mode and sideslip were zero, but they could set any speed they wanted to on turn 1.


doesnt that give you a free 5th impulse cloaking for only 4 impulse of energy though? which is why i assume you pay at the end of the 4th impulse
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Paul Grogan
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 6:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just playing buy the rules. The scenario says that they must pay for it in the first 4 impulses of the game. By paying for the cloak in impulse 4, it means they are cloaked for most of turn 5, fading in for most of turn 6 (at the earliest).

Whether this is a good / bad thing for the Federation player who knows. I want to try the scenario again and make different decisions to see what happens.
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Kang
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I reckon it's worded ambigously. Y'see, if it says they have to pay for the cloak for 4 impulses, does that mean they have to pay for the cloak in advance as if they're beginning a cloaked period [even though they're already cloaked] and then stay cloaked for that time? Does it mean that they have to pay for cloak per impulse for the first four impules? Or does it mean that they have to pay for four impulses of cloaking in Impulse #1 but are free to decloak when they wish but naturally lose any energy they have paid for the cloak if they uncloak early?

Could do with a comment from the scenario designer. IIRC [I don't have the RA rules booklet in front of me] it was Mike W? Not sure....

I will be uploading a brief battle report for the scenario soon, when I get chance. That's unless Paul wants to put it in instead; I don't mind Smile

[Edit: Battle report thread is here: http://www.starfleetgames.com/federation/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?p=13883#13883 ]
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mjwest
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The special rules mean pretty much exactly what they say.

The Romulans start the scenario Stopped. This simply means that their turn and sideslip modes are set to zero. It also means they can move in reverse without paying breaking energy. This is noted because the basic scenario assumption is that ships are moving forward in a roughly straight line. Since the Romulans start this scenario with a different set of assumptions, this must be noted.

The note about cloaking is there to say they have spent the power. It doesn't mean they have to stay under cloak. It just means they start under cloak, and have spent the power for four impulses of cloaking costs. The effect of this rule is that the Romulans start cloaked without having already used their one allowed "fade-out" per turn. It also means they have spent the power outside the normal operation of the rules (which is why it is a special scenario rule).

So, the special scenario rules are there to impose some (admittedly minor) restrictions on the operations of the Romulans during the first turn. But don't read too much into them. They start the way described, but otherwise operate normally.
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Kang
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cool. Thanks Mike - that was more or less how we played it, except that, as Paul said, we played it that we had to remain cloaked for 4 impulses.

We will know next time. Thanks again!
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