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Capturing ships

 
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Kang
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Joined: 23 Sep 2007
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Location: Devon, UK

PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 6:30 pm    Post subject: Capturing ships Reply with quote

The example of the capture of the Hood by Marine boarding parties in (5F2c) forms the basis of my question.

I understand that I have to score 'casualties' on enemy control spaces once the defending Marines have been eliminated.

But there's two things I don't understand.

The first thing is this - are the defending control spaces actually marked as Disabled? Because the Turn #9 part of the Hood example states that 'the two additional damage points capture the bridge of the Hood - what, do we mark them with a dot or something to mark their 'capture'? - especially since once I have captured the ship, I will have to pilot it from somewhere Smile

The second thing comes from the Turn #10 part of the example. It says that 'As [the 13 remaining Klingon Marines] are unopposed, they capture the Emergency Bridge (and the Hood) at the end of Turn #10' - so does this mean that they don't need to roll for casualty points to capture the Emer Bridge?

It is actually possible for 13 Marines to not score two casualty points on a given Turn; the Emer Bridge in the example, therefore, is not definitely captured unless it's automatic because the Klingon Marines are unopposed, as is suggested by the example - that's what it actually says, 'As the Klingons are unopposed, they capture...'.

If this is the case, then it would mean that a single Marine unit transporting aboard a ship which carries no Marines, such as a freighter for example, would capture it automatically at the end of a turn.

Please could someone point me in the right direction with this Smile Thanks!

On the back end of this question, how many Marine units are required on a captured enemy starship in order to fly it? Just one? We don't have 'skeleton crews' in FC, do we?
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Scoutdad
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 7:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Capturing ships Reply with quote

Kang wrote:
But there's two things I don't understand.

Tony, good questions. See responses below:
Kang wrote:
The first thing is this - are the defending control spaces actually marked as Disabled? Because the Turn #9 part of the Hood example states that 'the two additional damage points capture the bridge of the Hood - what, do we mark them with a dot or something to mark their 'capture'? - especially since once I have captured the ship, I will have to pilot it from somewhere Smile

No, they are not actually "disabled". We simply mark them with a small dot in the center of the box to indicate that they are controlled by a foreign unit. This makes it easy to remember which were disabled by weapons fire during combat and which were controlled by hte enemy if an allied ship manages to transport Marines over to retake the ship.
Kang wrote:
The second thing comes from the Turn #10 part of the example. It says that 'As [the 13 remaining Klingon Marines] are unopposed, they capture the Emergency Bridge (and the Hood) at the end of Turn #10' - so does this mean that they don't need to roll for casualty points to capture the Emer Bridge?

It is actually possible for 13 Marines to not score two casualty points on a given Turn; the Emer Bridge in the example, therefore, is not definitely captured unless it's automatic because the Klingon Marines are unopposed, as is suggested by the example - that's what it actually says, 'As the Klingons are unopposed, they capture...'.

If this is the case, then it would mean that a single Marine unit transporting aboard a ship which carries no Marines, such as a freighter for example, would capture it automatically at the end of a turn.

Please could someone point me in the right direction with this Smile Thanks!

While the rules dont actually spell it out, I think the intent is that an uncontested unit can be controlled automatically - if you have enough boarding parties onboard to take said unit... see comment below.
Kang wrote:
On the back end of this question, how many Marine units are required on a captured enemy starship in order to fly it? Just one? We don't have 'skeleton crews' in FC, do we?

(5F2c) Capturing: To actually capture an enemy ship, you eliminate all defending Marines and score an additional number of casualty points equal to the number of control systems (5A) on the ship (3E2). You can then withdraw any boarding parties which exceed the original number of control boxes.
So you need at least as many boarding parties as the ship had control systems.
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mjwest
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

'dad got it correct.
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Kang
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks guys. So then, without back-quoting all that you've written, Tony, does that mean that if I beam say five Marines on to an 'undefended' ship with four control boxes, it's captured automatically?

For example, a Large Freighter with four control boxes, a D7 with five transporters and enough volunteers, willing or otherwise, to be sent across on their mission - that Freighter would be captured automatically at the end of the Turn, would it?
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Scoutdad
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is my understanding of it...at least until someone beams marines onto it from the other side.

Or even worse, onto your D7. I've almost lost ships that way. You get greedy and begin capturing freighters... only to have some enemy captain realize that most of your marines were somewhere other than your ship...

A few well placed Hit-n-Run raids against your TRANS to keep you from beaming them back at a rapid rate and they can seriously overload even a D7's abilities to defend itself.
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Kang
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fair enough, thanks. I still think it looks as if you actually have to roll dice to score those capture points against enemy control boxes, whether the ship had been defended at one time or not. Eliminate all enemy Marines and then score points on the control boxes seems pretty well ok, it's just that the example of the Hood in the book was not all that clear.

Although 13 Marines would be almost certain to capture two control boxes, it is by no means automatic, wouldn't you agree?
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Scoutdad
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yes, 13 marine squads are almost certain to score enough points. They are 91.7 % likely to accomplish that goal.
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storeylf
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 10:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The rules do seem to be quite clear that you kill all defenders AND score additional damage equal to the uncontrolled bridges. That seems to mean that you can't simply say I capture the ship cos its unopposed - you will eventually, but it may take several turns.
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mjwest
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 11:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Even if the affect ship only has control spaces left, you still have to roll to capture them. The example probably should have said that it was almost guaranteed to be captured at the end of the turn rather than guaranteed to be captured.

But you still have to roll, even if otherwise unopposed.
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Kang
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 5:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mjwest wrote:
Even if the affect ship only has control spaces left, you still have to roll to capture them. The example probably should have said that it was almost guaranteed to be captured at the end of the turn rather than guaranteed to be captured.

But you still have to roll, even if otherwise unopposed.

That's what I was after. Thank you all for your input.

Tony, your mention of the danger of emptying your ship of Marines will be remembered, and hopefully one day used in action Smile
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terryoc
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 8:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
A few well placed Hit-n-Run raids against your TRANS to keep you from beaming them back at a rapid rate and they can seriously overload even a D7's abilities to defend itself.


In an emergency, you can always self-destruct the freighter and evacuate the marines back to the D7. Also, I don't like to use raids against yellow "system" boxes, they're too quickly repaired. Simply crippling the D7 will kill a few transporters. Remember, too, that the freighters you've captured have transporters of their own.
[/quote]
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Davec_24
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had always played the capturing such that you have to score casualty points on the control boxes even if there are no enemy marines. The way I see this is that it takes time and effort to clear the bridge spaces of enemy crew who may or may not be armed and firing back, and then to establish control of the ship's functions enough to operate it. Only at this point does a ship become fully "captured", and this takes time.

While unlikely to fail, unopposed capture is not entirely automatic - I had 3 marines on a fleet scale small freighter who failed to capture the freighter at the end of a turn the other day! Presumbaly this ability to fail to capture is to allow for that pesky couple of freighter crew hiding in the captain's ready room with grenades and phaser pistols to delay my bridge assault team, and for the the control locks with passowrds or whatever that they put onto the ship's controls when they knew we were about to board by a superior force. That or it accounts for unforgiveable cowardice (punishable by death, of course) in my Klingon boarding parties. Wink
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