View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
missmatronic Lieutenant JG
Joined: 15 Aug 2008 Posts: 70 Location: San Jose, CA
|
Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 6:43 pm Post subject: HETs and Move Precedence |
|
|
I have a question as to when a HET is actually performed. I understand when a HET is payed for and declared, but is the HET performed in normal precedence order during the sub-pulse or do all units perform their HETS before the sub-pulse commences? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Scoutdad Commodore
Joined: 09 Oct 2006 Posts: 4754 Location: Middle Tennessee
|
Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 7:10 pm Post subject: |
|
|
See (2A5), second sentence:
Units perform High Energy Turns (2D2) during the step assigned to them (even if they are not scheduled to move).A non-moving unit is (within its category) the slowest moving unit, so a speed zero ship will HET before other ships move in the ship step.
I take it to mean that a ship executes a HET in the 2nd step of the Order of Precedence (i.e., 1-Monsters move, 2-Ships move,etc...)
So, typically when we play we:
1) move monsters (if any on the board)
2) move ships:
HET's first and in speed order - Speed 0 ships HET, speed 8 ships HET, etc.
Ships move - in speed order, based on impulse
3) PF move - n/a
4) Shuttles move
and so on.
It may not be the absolutely correct way to do it, but it works for our group and stops any arguments about when does a ship with baseline speed 16 HET on movement pulse 3? _________________ Commander, Battlegroup Murfreesboro
Department Head, ACTASF |
|
Back to top |
|
|
missmatronic Lieutenant JG
Joined: 15 Aug 2008 Posts: 70 Location: San Jose, CA
|
Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 7:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
So you are saying that all HETs are performed before anyone executes movement during the sub-pulse? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
missmatronic Lieutenant JG
Joined: 15 Aug 2008 Posts: 70 Location: San Jose, CA
|
Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 7:53 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I'm trying to interperet this portion of 2D2a : "This maneuver allows the ship to turn to any new facing it wants, immediatley, regardless of its speed or turn mode." |
|
Back to top |
|
|
mjwest Commodore
Joined: 08 Oct 2006 Posts: 4075 Location: Dallas, Texas
|
Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 7:57 pm Post subject: |
|
|
The basic idea is that HETs are performed in the normal stream of movement. The HET is done in place of a normal turn (change of facing).
In sub-pulses where the ship doesn't normally move, the HET is done when it would have moved, as if this was a sub-pulse in which it would have moved.
But the overriding idea is that HETs are done in the normal course of movement. _________________
Federation Commander Answer Guy |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Scoutdad Commodore
Joined: 09 Oct 2006 Posts: 4754 Location: Middle Tennessee
|
Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 7:57 pm Post subject: |
|
|
That's the way we play it... but only because of the kinda vague wording in the rule book. I actually think the HETs should be done during movement and at the proper time.
i.e., Movement pulse 1:
there should be an opportunity for each unit to HET based on it's baseline speed: Stopped can HET - Speed 0 can HET - Speed 0+1 can HET - Speed 8 can HET - Speed 8+1 can HET - Speed 16 can HET - Speed 16+1 can HET - Speed 24 can HET - Speed 24+1 can HET and/or move - Speed 32 can HET/move.
Movement sub-pulse two:
Stopped can HET - Speed 0 can HET - Speed 0+1 can HET - Speed 8 can HET - Speed 8+1 can HET/move - Speed 16 can HET/move - Speed 16+1 can HET/move - Speed 24 can HET/move - Speed 24+1 can HET/move - Speed 32 can HET/move.
hmmm. In retrospect, that's probably the correct way. I guess we need to revisit this issue as a group and change the way we do it. _________________ Commander, Battlegroup Murfreesboro
Department Head, ACTASF |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Scoutdad Commodore
Joined: 09 Oct 2006 Posts: 4754 Location: Middle Tennessee
|
Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 7:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Well, mjwest cross-posted with me. We have been doing it wrong and need to change he way we do it to match the example shown above.
You learn something new every day. That's my thing for today, I'm going to bed. See y'all tomorrow. _________________ Commander, Battlegroup Murfreesboro
Department Head, ACTASF |
|
Back to top |
|
|
missmatronic Lieutenant JG
Joined: 15 Aug 2008 Posts: 70 Location: San Jose, CA
|
Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 8:03 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Based on West's answer, it seems that your extended explaination seems to correlate Scout. Thank you both. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
mjwest Commodore
Joined: 08 Oct 2006 Posts: 4075 Location: Dallas, Texas
|
Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 11:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Yes, 'dad's revised post is correct. _________________
Federation Commander Answer Guy |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Davec_24 Commander
Joined: 16 Jul 2008 Posts: 596 Location: England
|
Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 10:39 am Post subject: |
|
|
We always played HETs as being sort of in place of your "normal" move for that sub-pulse (but with the option to do it in a sub-pulse where you would not normally move). I think that's pretty much what MJW and Scoutdad said. I think this makes sense, because if you had to do HETs before other "normal" movement commences in that sub-pulse (which is what I saw as the alternative, could be wrong) then you wouldn't be able to have that "surprise HET - I'm now pointing at you when you were chasing me a second ago!" factor, especially when you are both at the same speed and turn-mode and so using simultaneous written movement. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Davec_24 Commander
Joined: 16 Jul 2008 Posts: 596 Location: England
|
Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 10:46 am Post subject: |
|
|
missmatronic wrote: | I'm trying to interperet this portion of 2D2a : "This maneuver allows the ship to turn to any new facing it wants, immediatley, regardless of its speed or turn mode." |
I think this part means that even if you haven't fulfilled your turn mode and even if you were not otherwise due to move on that sub-pulse (hence the reference to your speed) you can make an HET. So for example, a ship moving at speed 16 could HET in sub-pulse 1 where it couldn't do any movement by "normal" means, and a ship which has only moved 3 hexes since it last turned when its turn mode is 5 could make a HET, even though its regular turn mode is not fulfilled.
The other bit that caused a little confusion (in rule (2D2a)) was where it says "The ship's Turn mode (2C2) and Sideslip Mode (2C4) are reset to zero". Some of our players were taking this to mean that you can turn and slip again when you want to (I think it was the word "reset" that was causing this confusion), but I think what this actually means is quite the opposite - basically your HET point counts as both a turn and sideslip point and you have to re-fulfill turn and slip modes again after performing a HET. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
mjwest Commodore
Joined: 08 Oct 2006 Posts: 4075 Location: Dallas, Texas
|
Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 12:26 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Davec, you are absolutely correct on both points.
(2D2a) means that you can HET even if you are not scheduled to move, and even if you have not fulfilled your turn mode.
"... reset to zero" means exactly that. After performing an HET, your turn mode is reset (or just flat out set) to zero. You must now move the requisite number of hexes to be able to normally turn again. Same for sideslip mode.
So, if you make an HET in a subpulse in which you do not move, then the next time you do move you must move directly forward (or use a deceleration). _________________
Federation Commander Answer Guy |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Kang Fleet Captain
Joined: 23 Sep 2007 Posts: 1976 Location: Devon, UK
|
Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 12:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Davec_24 wrote: | Some of our players were taking this to mean that you can turn and slip again when you want to |
Hmm. I wonder who
Basically what we [Dave and I] did was to place the 'turn point' and 'slip point' markers together in the hex of the ship that has just done its HET. That's nice and neat.
At Exeter, we just lose all our 'poker chips' - basically we collect poker chips with each movement point expended or cancelled for the turn mode, and when we have chips equalling the turn mode, we can turn. So losing the chips means that we have to start collecting them again.
My own personal opinion is that you should not reset the sideslip mode with a HET, so that this can simulate HETs that are not exact multiples of 60 degrees, in the same way that slipping is a 'turn' of less than 60 degrees. You could have turned 150 degrees with your HET, for example.
However the existing rule is simple and well established, so I'm not complaining. _________________
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
Davec_24 Commander
Joined: 16 Jul 2008 Posts: 596 Location: England
|
Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 2:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Kang wrote: | Davec_24 wrote: | Some of our players were taking this to mean that you can turn and slip again when you want to |
Hmm. I wonder who |
Our usual...erm... "player" was one of these, yes. Actually we had a couple of people read it like this, so it probably wasn't just an excuse to be obtuse about something, maybe the way the rule is phrased actually can reasonably be taken both ways! However, if you sit and think about it, you've just turned by making an HET, so it wouldn't make much sense to say you can turn again when you like. Since both turn and sideslip modes are "reset to zero", it follows that the sideslip mode does the same as the turn mode (i.e. you have to re-fulfill it). That was how I reasoned this point to people anyway.
The poker chips thing works fine, but I barely have room for the maps on the table, and so my ship cards end up on people's laps and chair arms rather than on the table, rendering the poker chip treatment somewhat less practical. This is why I use the turn and slip point counters instead. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
missmatronic Lieutenant JG
Joined: 15 Aug 2008 Posts: 70 Location: San Jose, CA
|
Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 4:51 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Thanks for clarifying the 2D2a issue, that always bugged me!! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|