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New Rulebook
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Patrick Doyle
Lieutenant Commander


Joined: 18 Aug 2007
Posts: 201
Location: Norfolk, VA

PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 2:00 am    Post subject: New Rulebook Reply with quote

I am writting to plead (yes on my virtual hand and knees) for the ability to purchase a new updated rulebook. I will pay $10 for one very happily and I think many others will as well.

I would much rather buy one every six months than spend time going over Communiques and Attack products in an attempt to keep everything current handy. I don't have the time to spend in Kinkos cutting and pating either (or over my semi-function scanner). If I'm the only one I'll shutup, but I am certain that I am not alone.
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Sir Drake
Lieutenant JG


Joined: 25 Mar 2008
Posts: 84
Location: Sacramento

PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 3:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would also like a complete up to date set of rules. I was hoping that their would have been one in Orion Attack, but would be willing to buy one if it was out there.
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Davec_24
Commander


Joined: 16 Jul 2008
Posts: 596
Location: England

PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wouldn't mind another copy of the FC rulebook anyway, and would quite like a fully updated copy of the FC rulebook with all the changes, corrections and clarifications written into it. I would consider buying a "revised" rulebook regularly, depending on how much it would cost to do this.
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Mike
Captain


Joined: 07 May 2007
Posts: 1532
Location: South Carolina

PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If an updated rulebook would include ALL the rules, I would go for it, too. By ALL the rules, I mean all the other rules found in the other little peripheral products.
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mjwest
Commodore


Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Posts: 3480
Location: Dallas, Texas

PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Based on how the "reference rulebook" is being done right now, a new rulebook would include all the rules from sections 1-6, plus the "intro" stuff from 7 and 8. It would not include the individual ship listings, nor would it include any scenarios.
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Scoutdad
Commodore


Joined: 09 Oct 2006
Posts: 4463
Location: Middle Tennessee

PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And I would guess that it would not be out until after War and Peace is released. That way it can have the ISC specific rules, as well as anything required for other races which might be included...
Vudar (Ion Cannons)
Andromedans (T/R Beams, DisDev, PA Panels)
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Davec_24
Commander


Joined: 16 Jul 2008
Posts: 596
Location: England

PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 8:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That'll be quite a long time to wait though. I think the idea of Patrick Doyle's original post was to ask for a rulebook incorporating the current rules changes as an interim, so that players can have the opportunity to have an up to date set of rules without having to wait for War and Peace to be released.
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Patrick Doyle
Lieutenant Commander


Joined: 18 Aug 2007
Posts: 201
Location: Norfolk, VA

PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes,
my hope is to have a rulebook that includes all the changes and new rules. I would fully expect to have to buy another one as new products are released, and another as changes are incorporated to new products. i simply want to know that the rule I am reading is as up to date as possible. I do not care about pictures, ship descriptions or scenarios, I just want to know I am playing by the rules.

If it was possible I'd happily pay for a downloadable PDF and print it out at home.
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Dal Downing
Commander


Joined: 06 May 2008
Posts: 552
Location: Western Wisconsin

PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 6:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok I do not own a Game Designing Company so I am prepared to have people laugh at me pat me on the head and say thats nice dear there are cookies in the kitchen.

But what it seems like might be a good ideal is if a current upto date "Rulebook" Covers all rules since January and maybe the "Attack" Rules was included in the "Orgins" Release. And then if 6 months Later a "Breifing" Covering all the updates and maybe the "Attack Rules" from the 2nd half of the year was made available it might help with the... Is this Rule the Latest and Greatest? Or are people saying that 6 month between Published "offical" rules is too long?

The more I think about it that might be a nice format for the Briefing line anyway. First Third is Rules Updates (Scince Orgins), Middle third is some scenieros, and Last Third is new ships and/or Master Ships List (Or maybe just the new ships since the last briefing.)

This would save me from having to print or scan everything to make my own personal Master Rule Book.

But like I said I am not a Game Designer or a Game Publisher. I am a Enthesiastic Game Buyer Twisted Evil
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Kang
Fleet Captain


Joined: 23 Sep 2007
Posts: 1950
Location: Devon, UK

PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 8:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is part of the problem with a modular product, where expansions are published every so often.

I'm not sure there is an easy way around it either. Certainly it's good having today's electronic communications with which to pass on rules updates and such. However I remember buying SFB Designer's Edition in 1981, then the three expansions and some other bits like 'Carriers and Fighters'.

As with any complex wargame, extensive playing by, well, the plavers Wink revealed points that needed to be changed or clarified. The SFB expansions did publish the rules errata, but made it much more dififcult to find the latest rules update on a particular subject. Plus there were new rules and weapons which then had errata published in the next expansion.

The Commander's Edition, and then the Captain's Edition of SFB were huge pieces of work which did a great job in pulling all the threads together.

This is a situation which is not unique to Federation Commander and SFB. I work in the pharmaceutical industry; several times a year we get a new publication stating the changes to the system and the rules; these can be absolute murder to keep track of. Someone somewhere puts a lot of work into keeping those documents correct, and even then there's mistakes.

I know that it would take a lot of work to keep the FC rules up to date after the fashion of those pharmaceutical books. Perhaps the best way ahead would be to simply have one new [updated] rulebook per year, with all the new rules and the updates inserted in their correcct contexts. I would be happy to buy that as a standalone product, never mind as a simple 'at-cost' replacement from ADB. What it would do to the marketing of the 'Attack' and similar modules I don't know - would some players consider not buying an 'Attack' module because they would await the annual rulebook in which the new rules would appear?

I would say probably not. The ship cards, counters and other bits [boards, play aids, whatever] in the Attack products should keep them in the mainstream sales; the new rules are only a small [but important] part of the FC expansions.
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Davec_24
Commander


Joined: 16 Jul 2008
Posts: 596
Location: England

PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kang wrote:
What it would do to the marketing of the 'Attack' and similar modules I don't know - would some players consider not buying an 'Attack' module because they would await the annual rulebook in which the new rules would appear?

I would say probably not. The ship cards, counters and other bits [boards, play aids, whatever] in the Attack products should keep them in the mainstream sales; the new rules are only a small [but important] part of the FC expansions.


Well I certainly buy "attack" expansions for the ships and/or new races rather than any rules updates they might contain. In most cases, rules updates in the "attack" modules only include any new or revised rules relevant to the ships and/or races published in that expansion. There are some cases where important changes are included in an expansion, such as the docking rules in DK and (I think, I haven't got it yet!) various changes in OA. In any case, it would be nice to have a centralised and complete (or as complete as a periodic idea like this can be) collection of rules in a new rulebook to save people having to look through all the attacks modules to find the rules.
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Davec_24
Commander


Joined: 16 Jul 2008
Posts: 596
Location: England

PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kang wrote:
I work in the pharmaceutical industry; several times a year we get a new publication stating the changes to the system and the rules; these can be absolute murder to keep track of. Someone somewhere puts a lot of work into keeping those documents correct, and even then there's mistakes.


Is that the BP you're talking about there? That thing sounds pretty tedious to me...
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Kang
Fleet Captain


Joined: 23 Sep 2007
Posts: 1950
Location: Devon, UK

PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 10:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Davec_24 wrote:
Is that the BP you're talking about there? That thing sounds pretty tedious to me...

The BP gets updated annually. It's the European Pharmacopoeia I'm talking about; 4-5 updates per year or so.

These books are very useful for bedtime reading. If you're having trouble sleeping, that is... Wink
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Davec_24
Commander


Joined: 16 Jul 2008
Posts: 596
Location: England

PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

4-5 times! Wow... at least (hopefully) it's not as much to slog through all at once as the BP.
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OGOPTIMUS
Captain


Joined: 10 Nov 2006
Posts: 981

PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would also like a new Rev 5 rulebook, but I can wait until the "basic" game is finished--i.e. the ISC, Vudar, and maybe Andros are done. What I would like to see avoided is a new rulebook every 6 months. That gets rather annoying. And it kills trees.

Having them available in Communique is very nice since it's free, and people don't have to buy supplements to get new and revised rules all the time. Plus, since it's a pdf, you can copy the new rules to a word file and keep a running list for yourself that you can print out and keep with your rulebook.

And as for printing the new and revised rules in supplements, it gets to be difficult since as you make newer supplements the rules add up--taking up more and more of the book. Unless only the very newest ones are included, and then you're back to making people buy ALL the supplements if they want to even play the regular game, which I thought was one of the issues to be solved with "old" Star Fleet Battles.
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