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Repairing Destroyed Plasma
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mjwest
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Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Posts: 3495
Location: Dallas, Texas

PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow. Didn't see this one coming.

For what it is worth, it was my understanding, because of the wording of the rule and the color text given, that you could repair the torpedo box at the end of the turn and thus preserve the warhead. Obviously, this would only apply to ships that could do the repair in a single turn.

I have stated this before, but it has been a while. However, I will send a query to Steve to make sure this is correct.
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Dal Downing
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Joined: 06 May 2008
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Location: Western Wisconsin

PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

asguard101 wrote:
no anything damage can be repaired at the end of the tur, with the exception of the Orion Doubled Engines....

That being said, a simple soluation to this whole thing would be to move the repair phase to the begining of the turn where the shield repair already is...


Actually, and I am not trying to bring any undue hate to the Plasma Chnunkers, the simplest solution to the problem is remove the Plasma Launch Exception Twisted Evil But I agree that is unusually harsh but I will have zero support for any ideal to change the Order of Presedeance.

The interpetation I use is ignore the fluff, what it is in a nutshell is. the launcher is destroyed the warhead is destrioyed but... CAN still be fired to the end of the turn at which point the Bubble holding the Warhead stable has collapsed and the energy is disapated/misfired.

Does anyone really want to see Photons, Hellbores, or ESG repaired fully chraged? After all Drone Racks (Which are a Weapon) are not.
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mjwest
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BTW, the reason for my interpretation is the parenthetical comment in (4J3d). The only reason the plasma torpedo goes away is because the ship cannot apply the holding energy at the start of the next turn. That heavily implies that the plasma torpedo is actually still present at the beginning of the next turn in energy allocation. That means that if the box is repaired prior to that point, the plasma torpedo is still there, and the holding energy can be applied, meaning that the torpedo doesn't go away.
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asguard101
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Joined: 20 Jul 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I seem to recall a rule from SFB that said you couldn't repair something in the same turn it was damaged.

1. Was this true?

&

2. Did it not get imported over to FC?
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Scoutdad
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Joined: 09 Oct 2006
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Location: Middle Tennessee

PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

asguard101 wrote:
I seem to recall a rule from SFB that said you couldn't repair something in the same turn it was damaged.

1. Was this true?

&

2. Did it not get imported over to FC?

1) Yes. In SFB repair points are assigned in teh start of turn phase adn you can't begin to repair something that has not been damaged.

2) No. FC has the repair phase at the end of the turn and you can apply the points (or repair if enough points are available) any damaged system - even one that was just recently damaged, i.e. in the current turn.
It's pay as you go DamCon, which is very similar to the Fed Comm Pay-As-You-Go energy allocation.
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Starfury
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Joined: 03 Nov 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll have to remember that next time we play FC. So if I lose 4 hull on a cruiser I can apply all 4 of my Dam Con points and fix them so they're there to be blown up again the next turn?
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Scoutdad
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep. That's typically what we do in the early rounds before more critical items are damaged... and sometimes even after they - just to have those 4 hull hits available on the DAC.
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Mike
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 1:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And as was stated earlier, the exception to the "repair the same Turn they were destroyed" rule is the new, improved rule about Orion engines that were doubled.
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Savedfromwhat
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think this is being made more complicated then it is, and when people say things like "this is simple really..." and then go off on some tangent about launch phase it is just muddying the water. Me abd MJWest are in total agreement here simply because this is what the rules state if you look at them in an unbiased manner. hoton torpedoes have absolutley nothing to do with the disscussion, neither do hellbores, Fusion Beams, Disruptors, Drones, etc. Each weapon system in the game operates differently because each weapon in the game has its own flavor physics if you will. This is a game based on a fictional universe with fictional physics and it works based on those principals.

I am biased on the issue to be humble because I see plasma as weak already and would hate to see it hit with another nerf bat, I am loathe to take any side in a rulings issue for a game but I am making a stand on this because I think everyone on the opposing side is "reading too much into something that isn't there".

ok i am mad about this so i am going to stop posting now. Who gets mad about a game right? Anyway i will come back to this post when i cool off. sorry

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Davec_24
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Joined: 16 Jul 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 12:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Savedfromwhat wrote:
Me abd MJWest are in total agreement here simply because this is what the rules state if you look at them in an unbiased manner.


But the thing is that the rules only read the way that you are reading them if you read them in a biased manner. You have to have the thought that you *can* keep the plasma after the end of the turn in order to read it this way. Yes, the same may be true of the "opposing side's" argument (i.e. you have to look at it from their perspective to read it their way), but you can't really claim that one "side" here looks at things in a way which is biased and the other "side" does not. As far as I can see, nobody is trying to screw plasma in this debate, it's quite simply a rules question.

Savedfromwhat wrote:
...I am making a stand on this because I think everyone on the opposing side is "reading too much into something that isn't there".


But did you pause to consider that the opposing side might think that you yourself are "reading too much into something that isn't there"? The rule may not ever say that you *can't* use the plasma from a disabled tube after repairing it, but it doesn't say you *can* either.

I can see where both "sides" are coming from, but it's not looking like this is going to get cleared up on its own - let's hope we get a "clarification" from SVC then. Smile
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Democratus
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it should also be taken into consideration that Plasma is no longer the hyper-spooky weapon that it was in SFB. They are marginal at best and so I don't think this 'rolling repair' rule is really out of whack as far as balance is concerned.
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terryoc
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I disagree that plasma is "marginal" in FC. You will need to use bolts more often in FC due to the higher speeds. It can be made to work. And against slow moving targets, plasma is horrific because of no weasels.
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Savedfromwhat
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 2:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you are a slow moving target against plasma you tactically deserve to lose.

The rules state that energy in a plasma torpedo launcher is lost at the end of the turn if it isn't fired. Fine I concede. Ignore the "flavor text" that states why the energy is lost, the rule proper doesn't have an exception therfore the energy should still be lost.

Now with this way of lookign at things I am off to dissect my rule book.
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terryoc
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 11:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
If you are a slow moving target against plasma you tactically deserve to lose.


Bases, freighters and crippled ships don't have much choice Very Happy

Quote:
The rules state that energy in a plasma torpedo launcher is lost at the end of the turn if it isn't fired. Fine I concede. Ignore the "flavor text" that states why the energy is lost, the rule proper doesn't have an exception therfore the energy should still be lost.


No, the rules state that "the torpedo can still be launched normally before the end of the turn". It doesn't explicitly state what happens to the torpedo, except that it is noted elsewhere that disabled launchers cannot launch or hold torps.

The repair phase happens before the end of the turn, and when the turn ends, it can be argued that the torpedo is not in a disabled launcher and therefore is operating by normal rules. The question comes down to, "do the rules 'remember' the launcher was disabled or not?"
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j2klbs
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Joined: 08 Oct 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi all!

I just wanted to echo terryoc's comment. I cannot find anywhere that the rules say the plasma is lost, only that I have the option to launch it even if the launcher was destroyed.

Some people are saying, "it is very clear, the torpedo is destroyed at the end of the turn", etc. These people are trying to make the answer "simple" or "obvious" when that is not the case.

For those people, please cite specific rule quotes that lend evidence to the fact that if the launcher is destroyed but then repaired that the plasma (whether fully armed or in the process of being armed) is lost. I cannot find it anywhere in the rules which is why I made my original post.

Regards,
Jason
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