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Initial Move after Launch
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Vladimyr
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Joined: 29 Nov 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 1:12 am    Post subject: Initial Move after Launch Reply with quote

In (2C3b), the rules state that seeking weapons must move one hex (after launch) before they can turn. The same is said for shuttles.

Can either or both sideslip on that initial hex of movement?
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junior
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 1:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seeking weapons cannot sideslip on their first move. I'm not sure about shuttles.
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Scoutdad
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 2:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since the rules don't say that you can slip after a launch... we've always assumed that you can not side-slip a shuttle immediately after launch.
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mjwest
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Joined: 08 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 3:24 am    Post subject: Re: Initial Move after Launch Reply with quote

Vladimyr wrote:
In (2C3b), the rules state that seeking weapons must move one hex (after launch) before they can turn. The same is said for shuttles.

Can either or both sideslip on that initial hex of movement?

No.

When a seeking weapon or shuttle is launched, their turn and sideslip modes are set to zero. That is why they must move directly forward. There is, however, one exception for each.

A seeking weapon, if its target is one hex away, must use an HET in order to move into the target's hex. (This does not apply to suicide shuttles. Since suicide shuttles are still shuttles, they cannot HET.)

A shuttle may cancel that first move, which counts as its forward movement, and then turn for its next move. (This, again, does not apply to suicide shuttles. While suicide shuttles are shuttles, they are also seeking weapons, and seeking weapons cannot cancel movement.)

In any case, neither seeking weapons nor shuttles may sideslip on their first move after launch.
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Vladimyr
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 4:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We've always played it that way, but upon going through the rulebook with a few new players, I just couldn't find the reference to "turn and sideslip set to zero upon launch".

Thanks for the clarification Mike.
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Davec_24
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's not that the turn-modes are "reset" as such, it's just that they were never fulfilled in the first place. A ship, shuttle, seeking weapon etc. must fulfill its turn or sideslip mode before it can turn or sideslip. Since on a seeking weapon's first move it has not yet moved forwards, it has not moved the one hex required to fulfill its turn mode or its sideslip mode.
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erie_gp_man
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks, I knew I read that somewhere but couldn't find the rule in the Weapons section. I just highlighted that in my copy.

My boys and I just got back into FC a couple months ago after not playing for a while. I was amazed how quick we picked it back up but some things like this we kinda remembered but couldn't verify.
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Davec_24
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've also found that FC is quite quick to re-learn. I have a friend who I taught to play and did a couple of games with in February, and we only played together again a couple of weeks ago, and he picked it back up pretty much straight away. In fact, he even gave me a good run for my money! Wink
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Mike
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know the rules for FC were supposed to be written in a certain kind of style, but it sure would be nice to have every rule about a particular action or system listed in one place so we wouldn't have to go searching all through the rulebook to find them. This thing about seekers and shuttles having to move 1 hex straight ahead after launch is a case in point.

Even if some statements have to be repeated because they might apply to more than one situation, it would be worth having all of them together.

Could this idea be considered for the new version of the rulebook?
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Davec_24
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not sure if a clarification has been issued about this point yet, but it sounds like something that could be appropriate in the CRUL:

http://www.starfleetgames.com/fccc/resources.php?action=download&id=49

This is the "new" document which will be a central point for all of the rules updates so far, including clarifications such as with this issue and also corrections and changes such as to the EM rules, etc..
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erie_gp_man
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 3:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike wrote:
I know the rules for FC were supposed to be written in a certain kind of style, but it sure would be nice to have every rule about a particular action or system listed in one place so we wouldn't have to go searching all through the rulebook to find them. This thing about seekers and shuttles having to move 1 hex straight ahead after launch is a case in point.

Even if some statements have to be repeated because they might apply to more than one situation, it would be worth having all of them together.

Could this idea be considered for the new version of the rulebook?


It's not really in the "wrong" place, section 2 covers movement and we're talking about the movement (turn modes in particular) of seeking weapons. You just have to remember to looking in Sec 2 for movement rules, which I didn't. If you added this rule to the seeking weapons section you'd have to add it to shuttles, drones, etc and you'll end up with the same rule repeated several times. My 2 cents...
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Davec_24
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you're right that it is far simpler to have one set of rules to define the movement of seeking weapons, and then simply refer players to these rules from the rules for each seeking weapon. It also works out better in terms of gameplay, since at any time when you would be launching or hitting something with a seeking weapon you will want the "weapons rules", and it will not be due to move until next impulse. At any time a seeking weapon is due to move, the other ships/shuttles on the map will also be moving and so if you have to have the rulebook open at any particular section, you'll want it open at movement, so I would say having these rules under movement makes sense on the rulebook organisation front, too.

If you find yourself needing to flick through the rulebook too often to find the seeking weapon movement rules, it could be an idea to make a ready-reference card with the seeking weapon movement rules (and/or other rules relevant to the seeking weapons you are using) on it so that you can have them out during play. It'd take a few minutes but it would save you time during play. Smile
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Kang
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Joined: 23 Sep 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 10:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Davec_24 wrote:
I've also found that FC is quite quick to re-learn. I have a friend who I taught to play and did a couple of games with in February, and we only played together again a couple of weeks ago, and he picked it back up pretty much straight away. In fact, he even gave me a good run for my money! Wink

But I bet I know who won......
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Davec_24
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kang wrote:
Davec_24 wrote:
I've also found that FC is quite quick to re-learn. I have a friend who I taught to play and did a couple of games with in February, and we only played together again a couple of weeks ago, and he picked it back up pretty much straight away. In fact, he even gave me a good run for my money! Wink

But I bet I know who won......


Well yes, but only just and not very decisively. Actually the battle I mentioned was the F-CA Vs. L-CA we played, an after-action report for which can be found in the "Tactics" section. Given that the player in question has only played 4 or 5 games in total, I think he's doing pretty well. Very Happy
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mjwest
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This answer likely won't appear in the CRUL. The CRUL is for things that are new, fill a "hole", or need correction. In this case, it is simply an explanation of what is already there. Therefore, there really isn't anything to add.
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