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Kzinti Tactics?
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irbaboon
Lieutenant JG


Joined: 07 Jul 2007
Posts: 39

PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 4:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To tell truth, I woulda been happy with the no fusion/yes hellbore hydrans and if possible, no fighters.
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StarKiller
Lieutenant JG


Joined: 18 May 2007
Posts: 67
Location: Colorado Springs, CO

PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As a former SFB Hydran player I almost never flew fusion ships. I'd rather have hellbores for the ships, fusions for the disposable Stingers, and keep the number of fighters per ship small exactly as it is on hellbore ships. Especially in FC where they may never introduce fighters for other races (fine by me!) then you wouldn't really even need the Hydran pure carriers to gain fighter superiority.

Hmm, thread hijack--oops!
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irbaboon
Lieutenant JG


Joined: 07 Jul 2007
Posts: 39

PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 10:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

StarKiller wrote:
As a former SFB Hydran player I almost never flew fusion ships. I'd rather have hellbores for the ships, fusions for the disposable Stingers, and keep the number of fighters per ship small exactly as it is on hellbore ships. Especially in FC where they may never introduce fighters for other races (fine by me!) then you wouldn't really even need the Hydran pure carriers to gain fighter superiority.

Hmm, thread hijack--oops!


But a good one!
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Carnifex
Ensign


Joined: 19 Oct 2006
Posts: 19

PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 8:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TJolley wrote:
The Phaser-3 is the most powerful non-base mounted direct-fire weapon currently in the game out to a range of 2, per point of power put into it. The only weapon more powerful than a Phaser-3 is the base-only phaser 4..go figure Smile. The phaser 3 is also more powerful than either the Disruptor or the Photon, per point of power, out to a range of 3.


And yet, the Phaser-3 is a suboptimal weapon for what it was designed for - point defense. It fails to destroy an incoming drone 1/3rd of the time. What military would honestly pay for a weapon that allows one out of every three incoming missiles to damage their ships? Honestly, those odds are unacceptable. It gets better at range 0, but still, then only one out of every six incoming missiles hits your ship. That's still ~16%, again, a value that most militaries would consider unacceptable.

The Phaser-G is what a point defense weapon *should* be. For the same energy as a Phaser-3, both drones and suicide shuttles are obliterated, 100% of the time. That is a true defensive weapon.
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Patrick Doyle
Lieutenant Commander


Joined: 18 Aug 2007
Posts: 208
Location: Norfolk, VA

PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 2:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
the Phaser-3 is a suboptimal weapon for what it was designed for - point defense. It fails to destroy an incoming drone 1/3rd of the time. What military would honestly pay for a weapon that allows one out of every three incoming missiles to damage their ships?


The U.S. Navy.

Really 66% ain't bad. Consider the following missile -
Google it - SS-N-27B "Sizzler". And the sizzler is likely to sink or completely disable the ship.

Consider the US Navy's sub launched torpedoes at the beginning of WWII. They flat out didn't work, and some think that in some cases the torpedo turned around and sunk the launching sub.

Weapons are never perfect (lowest bidder). Having a guaranteed 66%, well at least I can plan for it. I personally plan for only a 33% success rate, but I'm a pessimist.
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djdood
Fleet Captain


Joined: 01 Feb 2007
Posts: 2925
Location: Seattle, WA

PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 3:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Carnifex wrote:
What military would honestly pay for a weapon that allows one out of every three incoming missiles to damage their ships?


I don't know [and I'm going slightly off-topic here] -
I've never read about a successful missile-intercept by the US Navy's much feared CIWS gatlings.

There's neat videos of the CIWS firing and it does indeed make lot of noise and spew a lot of shells, but have they ever actually saved a ship from anything? I've read more than once that they are left "OFF" a lot of the time, due to fears of accidental firing at friendly or neutral targets.

A weapon is useless if it can't be trusted, but most US Navy ships have at least one CIWS mounts.
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toastie
Lieutenant SG


Joined: 02 Mar 2007
Posts: 119

PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 4:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

djdood wrote:
Carnifex wrote:
What military would honestly pay for a weapon that allows one out of every three incoming missiles to damage their ships?


I don't know [and I'm going slightly off-topic here] -
I've never read about a successful missile-intercept by the US Navy's much feared CIWS gatlings.


No, but they seem to be rather effective against A-6s, even when they aren't meant to be...

Back on topic, you can't look at the phaser 3 as a weapon with where you have a 66% chance of killing the drone and 33% of not. That 66% chance is really just the outcome of a continuum of situations. Just as the Phalanx is going to perform better in some situations - calm seas, slow target, big target - and worse in others, you should expect the phaser 3 to perform with a range of effects. The game just abstracts those effects down to a set of results that just happens to be a 66% chance of killing a drone.

And just as a real Navy ship has a variety of defensive weapons such as long range missiles, electronic warfare and decoys, your FC ship has different methods to defeat a drone. You've got ADDs, tractors, and the ability to out run the thing.
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Kang
Fleet Captain


Joined: 23 Sep 2007
Posts: 1963
Location: Devon, UK

PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 8:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyway, you may have the option of firing 2 P-III's for a sure kill, and even if that fails you might have a tractor available. The P-III can be seen as highly effective if it is considered as part of a layered defence system, especially when combined with ADDs.

Plus don't forget you could set up what is effectively a limited Aegis system by arranging to meet and shoot the drone in the Direct Fire phase at Range 1, then if that fails catching it on your ship card and having another pop at it on the next impulse's defensive fire phase - 2xP-III's fired, but in two separate impulses AND the chance of getting it in one.

Ok, it may take some fancy flying, but with the use of sideslips and perhaps a decel or two as necessary [depending on the position of course], it works. Power-hungry, perhaps, but it is another set of options....
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pinecone
Fleet Captain


Joined: 03 May 2008
Posts: 1865
Location: Earth

PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, the ph-G is basically a maximumly overloaded photon (or partially overloaded if you get really bad rolls) for one energy and can be fired each turn at 0-1 range.
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USS Enterprise
Lieutenant Commander


Joined: 27 Feb 2009
Posts: 376
Location: Vulcan

PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I'm not mistaken the PH-G can only fire once per impulse, up to 4 times per turn.
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Scoutdad
Commodore


Joined: 09 Oct 2006
Posts: 4470
Location: Middle Tennessee

PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

USS Enterprise wrote:
If I'm not mistaken the PH-G can only fire once per impulse, up to 4 times per turn.

You are:
(4B2f) Gatling Phasers: The Hydrans use this weapon, which can fire four phaser=3 shots per turn (each costing 1/4 of an energy point). They could fire all four such shots in a single impulse or on different impulse.

And good way to revive a thread, by the way. 364 days since the previous post... that may be a record!
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Kang
Fleet Captain


Joined: 23 Sep 2007
Posts: 1963
Location: Devon, UK

PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry but you are mistaken. You can fire all four shots in the same impulse if you like, as long as you fire a maximum of four shots per turn. Rule (4B2f), second sentence.
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USS Enterprise
Lieutenant Commander


Joined: 27 Feb 2009
Posts: 376
Location: Vulcan

PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have never played with PH-G's, but I just naturally assumed different impulses. Guess I was wrong.

And of course I'm proud of the record.
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"Since my customary greeting would seem entirely self serving, I will simply say good luck."

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Bolo_MK_XL
Commander


Joined: 16 Jan 2007
Posts: 791
Location: North Carolina

PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
And of course I'm proud of the record.


And that record would be what,
The most useless posts in the shortest time ----
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Wolverin61
Commander


Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Posts: 497
Location: Mississippi

PostPosted: Sat Jun 13, 2009 12:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gatling phasers are awesome, especially with Aegis (which we don't have in FC).
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