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Taking the last hit on Frame....

 
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Kang
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Joined: 23 Sep 2007
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Location: Devon, UK

PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 8:09 am    Post subject: Taking the last hit on Frame.... Reply with quote

Ok, say I have an Orion DR with a Plas-G, a Plas-F and a Disruptor in the forward three mounts.

Now let's say I take a Torp hit from the damage chart. Any of these three systems can of course be hit on a Torp hit.

Since I have only one Disruptor, can I take that Torp hit on Frame, claiming that it's my last Disruptor, or do I have to have only one 'weapon hit on Torp' left in order to take it on Frame?

The way we saw it, the Disr is the last remaining box of that type, so the Frame hit was legal.

What does everyone else think?
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storeylf
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Joined: 24 Jul 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

from the briefing 1 rule thread:

(3E1d) You can take as many frame hits (to protect the last box of a type) as you have frame boxes, but you cannot voluntarily score a frame hit under this rule if doing so would result in the destruction of your ship. The last box of a given type refers to the entries on the DAC; the last "phaser" is just that, not the last phaser-1 or the last phaser-2.


WE take that as it must be your last Torp of any kind, so 1 disr and 1 other 'torp' means you have to lose one of them.
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Mike
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I concur with StoryElf. The example in the rule is specific enough to be applied across the board.
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Kang
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, so what would happen if you had a ship armed with both Drones and Hellbores? Same argument? A Hellbore is not a Drone.
Or for instance an ADD vs a Drone rack. They are not the same beast.

Sorry to be pedantic, but it's better to have these things sorted out away from the heat of battle Smile
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storeylf
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only thing that counts is whether you have more than one thing that counts as a drone or torp in terms of the DAC.

ADD and Drone both count as 'drone', so if you have both you have to lose one. If you have a hellbore and drone you have 2 'drones' so have to lose 1. If you have a disrupter and a fusion you have 2 'torp' so have to lose 1.
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Kang
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Joined: 23 Sep 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now, I see what you're saying, but it still says the last box of a particular sort on the ship card. The phaser is perhaps a bad example because there're four different types of them. The Torps I can cope with after a fashion because the Disr is basically the Klingon's replacement for the photon, and to some extent the plasma torp too - and that was what my original question was about.

But the Hellbore is simply not a drone. I see what you're saying - that it sounds as a drone as far as the damage chart goes - and I agree. But if you would be destroying [sorry, disabling] the last box of a given type - in this case Hellbore - then you can take it on frame. That's how I read it.

An interesting one, isn't it? Smile
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storeylf
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not really - the ruling was:

'The last box of a given type refers to the entries on the DAC'

The phaser bit was just the example. A hellbore is a drone on the DAC so proper drone plus hellbore equals no frame damage option,as by the DAC you still have 2 options of that type.

At any rate thats how I read it, and everyone else I play with (all 3 of them).
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mjwest
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Joined: 08 Oct 2006
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Location: Dallas, Texas

PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I can answer this one, as it is easy ...

Mike and storyelf are correct. It goes by damage type (from the DAC), not by weapon type.

So, in the case of a BR (there is no DR Smile ) with a Pl-G, Pl-F, and disruptor, you may not use the frame damage option until two of the three are disabled.

The point of the rule is not to allow you to save "one of everything". It is simply there to make sure you can have at least some bite until the very end. It is a tool of desperation, not a tool of first resort.
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Kang
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fair enough, gentlemen. We played it wrong - but now we know!

Thank you all for your input!
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