Federation Commander

[djdood]

Re: FedCom T-shirts at the Star Trek movie premiere - I'll be rocking the Fed CA silhouette shirt when I go (if only because I'm the one who hassled/begged SVC to add it to the choices on Cafe Press). I usually wear it to any kind of sci-fi event (cons, game-days, etc.). FedCom is my main fandom "thang" so why not advertise?
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[Scoutdad]

I've worn my FC: Klingon Border - Day One shirt to several events. It usually attracts attention from the Trekkies... but as soon as I begin explaining the FEderation COmmander is a board game (not a PC/Video game) - I get the 1,000 yard stare...

Todays ADHD / non-thinking youth... harumph!
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Commander, Battlegroup Murfreesboro
Department Head, ACTASF

[Carthaginian]

Wish we could get a Warbird silhouette shirt...
Oh, well... I guess I'll have to wear one of the other Rom shirts. I'll be buying one for the premiere.

[damraska]

As a person who builds, paints, and collects SFB minis for themselves, I would also like to see much more variety and especially detail in the ship designs.

I understand that, for game reasons, the starships of a given race must share similar characteristics. I also understand that those characteristics and SSD shapes were decided long ago. However, the design space of recognizable ships of each race remains largely unexplored. For example, a Gorn CA with two bubbles, a connective section, and two warp engines could look dramatically different yet retain the exact same basic silhouette.

The current generation of SFB/FedCom miniatures look very plain. For example, if I take the Gorn CA from the example above, give it a wash to deepen the shadows and highlight the high points, almost nothing happens. The mini simply lacks surface details and contours that respond to these basic techniques. Is the smooth hull more realistic? Perhaps, but from a painting point of view it provides little to work with.

I have some suggestions for future minis:

1) Scribe panel lines and deflector grids
2) Add some slightly raised and slightly lowered panels
3) Add surface texture
4) Add dimples and gashes for windows, ports, vents, etc.
5) Make warp engines more elaborate
6) Add more surface structures that protrude from the hull (sensors, scoops, hanger exits, whatever)
7) Change the surface details from one ship to the next
8 ) Vary substructures from one ship to the next

For example, let's take the Gorn CA again. Cut it in half horizontally down the middle and insert two recessed decks with lots of greebles a la a Star Destroyer. Scribe the panel lines for the deflector grid. Add a couple small hydrogen scoops on the upper waist. Add various windows, vents, and docking ports all over the hull. Add some indentations where docking arms grab the ship when under repairs. Add some vents, ribs, and greebles to the warp engines to represent structural bracing, gas vents, antimatter loading areas, and so forth. Tone down the hanger doors--they are immense in scale to the rest of the ship. Add indentations in the two new decks, at various points, to represent sensor arrays.

The ship I just described will look like a Gorn CA in silhouette. Everyone will recognize it immediately as a Gorn. Yet, when I paint it, all those added details will pop, making it look dramatically more detailed than the current CA miniature. I do not care how this change gets explained within the game.

-Doug

[Dan Ibekwe]

Interesting points. The ISC and Andromedan minis were designed a year or two after the main run of Kzinti/Lyran/Orion et. c. models, and were given rather more surface details. (Greebles? I like that word).

It's a matter of cost, time and likely financial return. I've got over 200 SFB/FC minis - if they were re-mastered, am I going to buy and paint them all over again?

Actually, quite probably, I would (sad old git...)

[koogie]

That might work for a new race, but I would rather have new ships for ones that don't exist then re-buying ones I already have (and I have over 600 SFB minis). And if you did a new Gorn ship type (that has not been released before) with these improvements then it would not fit in with the other Gorns.

The line of minitures is just to big now to go back and refit them all. Now, this would be a great idea for Omega miniatures...

[damraska]

[malleman]

I tend to like the lack of surface detail on the ships. In my opinion it gives the ships the orginal series "feel", which is what I am looking for.

[Sgt_G]

damraska,

You have to realise that SVC (aka Steve Cole), the game's designer, is not a minis guy. The game (SFB) started out are pure paper & cardboard, and minis were added much later. Steve, being an engineeer, was more interested in game-related details (bumps for phasers and other weapons) than he was in "fluff" such as windows. Also, I don't think such detail will look all that good for minis of this scale. I suspect it won't cast very well during production runs.
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Garth L. Getgen

Master Sgt, US Air Force, Retired -- 1981-2007 -- 1W091A

[Scoutdad]

As one of the guys that does the minis... I have to admit. I'd love to add some of those details... windows, hatches, shuttle bays, etc. Unfortunately, it's not a practical idea.

First off, Will McCammon, John Schneder, Mike Raper, Jessica Orsini, and myself are not professional minautes designers / sculptors with access to 100,000$ machinists equipment. Most of the minis currently being sold were sculpted in our wrok areas, on weekends, in our spare time, with simple hand-tools available at any hobby / craft store.
The master ministures are sculpted at a 1:1 scale, so any details must be added to the finished size mini at actual scale. This makes the addition of windows and hatches problematic. Further more, the molding / casting process used by ADB's casting house also precludes the additions of some of your requested detail-work. All of the current Starline minis are "spun-cast". Let's take your suggestions for the Gorn CA:
It would be easy enough to split the hull horizontally and add a recessed deck (in fact - I think I'll do that to one or two of my spares and call them CXs). The problem comes in at the casting stage. The spin cast mold is a two piece mold [top and bottom]. The mold has a resevoir in the center and a series of casting spaces (typically six) around the perimeter. The halves are pressed together, the resevoir is filled, and the assembly is then spun to force pewter into the molds.
A recessed deck such as you are thinking about would be right at the mold line and would create an undercut situation on the mold. Severe undercuts reduce the usable life-span of a spin-cast mold and leads to excessive rejections (either from excess flash or from excess voids).

As a group, I think we are getting better at adding some of the details you spoke of as our experience grows. Witness the scribed panel lines on Will's recent Fed Ex Courier and the multi-level detailing on the forthcoming Vudar fleet from John.

I think I can safely state on behalf of the other sculptors - "Thank you for your sincere comments on how to improve the miniature line and we'll keep your critques in mind as we work on future projects."

[edit] P.S. I forgot to include Malleman in the list of sculptors. If I forgot anyone else, it was not an intentional error and I apologize.
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Commander, Battlegroup Murfreesboro
Department Head, ACTASF

[djdood]

Like Tony (scoutdad) said. I was keeping quiet, hoping he would chime in first.

Sculpted-in windows, etc., would not be something I would ever even want to try and do in a 1:1 scale master. Just a recipe for frustration and tears.

The best that I (personally) could do is periodic dashes with a scribing tool, but most of those would get lost during the production mold-making, etc. It would also be really, really difficult to keep them true/parallel on compound curves, etc.

If I did the master as a CGI model and then it was grown with stereolithography, those kind of details are easy to model-in. If they then got lost in the production, no tears, as there wasn't any additional effort expended.

Will McCammon
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[damraska]

[Wolverin61]

[djdood]

[cross-posted with scoutdad]
The Vudar are not in production yet. Last I heard, they were getting tweaked. I hope they do get through casting some day soon, as they look really cool.

The Federation Express Courier I sculpted is in the "Other" section of the ADB minis cart, HERE.

The new Fed CC saucer was computer modeled, "grown", then investment cast. I know it was done by "Ken Burnside's room-mate", but I don't know who that is (I think it might be Todd Boyce of Ninja Magic as it kind of looks his style). It is indeed a fine piece of work (I upgraded all my Fed cruiser hulls to use, wherever possible).

Unfortunately, doing the minis in CGI and then growing them is fraught with problems. SVC got burned pretty good by the repeated problems and delays with the Lyrans that were done that way a few years back.

It's really hard to find modelers who really know how to build a model that will work for that process. It's even harder to get the modeler's software and the "grower/caster's" production software to play well with each other, especially when the models are tiny, high-tolerance, and must be absolutely "watertight".

If I had my druthers, all new minis would be done the way the CC saucer was, as it looks darn sharp. the reality though, is that in a lot of cases, it is much cheaper and simpler (especially for variants of existing minis) to just have John, Tony, etc., cut up and existing mini and modify it into what is needed. There are tricks of the trade to make them as good as can be, but the process always puts limits on things.

I know John, Tony, and myself are all open to feedback though (and malleman is too talented to not be open-minded as well; I just won't speak for him).

SVC has also proven that he listens to people's concerns. The reason the spiffy new CC saucer exists is because of other people bending his ear with feedback about the older CA saucer (myself included).
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[Scoutdad]

The Federation CC saucer was generated as a 3D computer model and then was laid down usinga stereo-lithogrphic process. Ken Burnside was one of the driving forces behind that one, IIRC.
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Commander, Battlegroup Murfreesboro
Department Head, ACTASF