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Explosions
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Mike
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Joined: 07 May 2007
Posts: 1531
Location: South Carolina

PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 11:57 pm    Post subject: Explosions Reply with quote

Are there explosions in SFB anymore? The latest rule set I have is the old Commander's edition in which the threat of multiple explosions in close proximity of a ship that was blown up was enough motivation to cause players to generally keep their squadrons and fleets fairly well spread out.
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Wolverin61
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Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Posts: 497
Location: Mississippi

PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 12:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think so, but I don't have my rulebook with me so I can't look it up and give you chapter and verse.
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djdood
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Joined: 01 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 12:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't have my books with me either, but basically explosions are still there, just greatly reduced.
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mjwest
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Joined: 08 Oct 2006
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Location: Dallas, Texas

PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 1:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are still explosions in SFB. Each ship is given an explicit explosion strength in the MSC.
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Mike
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Joined: 07 May 2007
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Location: South Carolina

PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mjwest: Do you know the reason(s) why explosions were not included in Federation Commander? Was it primarily because of the time element/complexity?
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djdood
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Joined: 01 Feb 2007
Posts: 2922
Location: Seattle, WA

PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Go HERE.
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Mike
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Joined: 07 May 2007
Posts: 1531
Location: South Carolina

PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, djdood!

For the benefit of others who might be following this, the following is the part he referenced.

This was from a list of things that were in SFB, but that would not be included in Federation Commander.

Quote:
Explosion: Eliminated (at least, it won't damage anything) as it is often abused. Might appear in a cameo roll as a monster scenario special rule.
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Crimin
Lieutenant JG


Joined: 12 Apr 2007
Posts: 48
Location: New Orleans, LA

PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 3:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I remember one tactic for taking out massive drone (or Stinger) waves was to blow up an enemy frigate near the swarm, or more munchkinly to arrange one of your own gunboats to blow up near them.

Not to mention the Commander's Edition cheese of taking a fully loaded Romulan DN and having it cloak and move into the middle of the enemy fleet. One self-destruct order later and every enemy ship within 4 hexes of the DN turns to vapor, along with any other ships that the cascade of explosions blew up...

Still, explosions made life for Hydrans much more interesting because you had to get the Stingers into point blank range and do just enough damage to NOT have the enemy explode. It was certainly an art form.
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djdood
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Joined: 01 Feb 2007
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Location: Seattle, WA

PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 7:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eh. 11 drones through a down shield will make almost anything go away (and yes, that happened tonight to my buddy's C-7).
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Mike
Captain


Joined: 07 May 2007
Posts: 1531
Location: South Carolina

PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, if I may ask, what is the range limitation for explosions now in SFB?

I would think that ships in the same hex or even an adjacent hex would be in danger.

Actually, I'd like to see such a rule incorporated into FedComm. I'm waiting to hear from mjwest about why it wasn't put in.
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mjwest
Commodore


Joined: 08 Oct 2006
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Location: Dallas, Texas

PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Explosing in SFB have a one hex range (everything in the hex of the explosion, and in the six adjacent hexes). It is powerful enough that taking out a cruiser will eliminate fighters in range, and taking out a frigate will kill off drones in range.

Here are some example explosion strengths:
Fed DNG: 30
Fed CA: 18
Fed DW: 12
Fed FF: 8
Klingon D7: 19

Being in range of an exploding ship is gonna hurt.

As for why it isn't in Federation Commander, I think the link djdood provided gives the reason just fine. I don't know that there is anything to add. Explosions were an abused rule, even with the limits given in Captain's Edition, and so it was eliminated. I really doubt there is any interest in adding it to Federation Commander at any point.

[One last point on the page djdood linked to. It was made prior to Federation Commander came out, and so it includes some ideas that were, in the end, not used.]
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OrangeCat
Ensign


Joined: 16 Jun 2009
Posts: 11
Location: Alberta, a planet in KZIN space...

PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Abused rule? I totally agree.

Bad memory? Someone cloaked a perfectly good WarEagle, armed all it's plasmas and detonated it under my Fed CA. O.O

Good tactic? Maybe, if you don't care about your ships, or your men, or their wives or children. Also, are people really, REALLY this suicidal in Real Life?

Cheezy? Yep, twinky even. Rolling Eyes
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gambler1650
Lieutenant JG


Joined: 30 Mar 2009
Posts: 71

PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OrangeCat: I don't think that's a legal tactic in the Captain's Edition. Sounds like your opponent self destructed, which has some pretty strict limits now on when you can do it. (I don't recall the exact details but I'm pretty sure that being crippled or imminent danger of your ship being captured figure into it somewhere)
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Bolo_MK_XL
Commander


Joined: 16 Jan 2007
Posts: 785
Location: North Carolina

PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gambler,

Explosion strengths in Captain's Edition was cut down so much --- nothing is added to the explosion like in the earlier editions --- With explosions in CE, a DN was 25-30, CA less than 20 etc ---

The normal tactic was to Envelope plasmas, fade in from cloak with no shields, take the alpha strike from ship/base next to you (if they declined to do this, you could launch the plasmas) ----

Have to remember, many on the board here have played with the Designers Edition and Commander's Edition which added Plasma, NSM, Warp strength to the ship explosion ---

This tactic was mostly extinguished with Captain's Edition few cared to waste a DN as this was about the only ship size that would to enough damage to make a difference to a ship with shields intact ---
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Vulcan
Ensign


Joined: 12 Oct 2009
Posts: 3
Location: North Las Vegas, NV

PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 4:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One thing MJWest missed in his post is that explosions of strength 9 or less (i.e. FF in his list) only damage things in the same hex (now), hence the reason my L-BATS "Popped" the H-LN and not the H-HN in our "Economy of Force" campaign to eliminate fighters.
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