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DorianGray
Lieutenant SG
Joined: 05 Mar 2009
Posts: 131
Location: Chevy Chase, MD
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 Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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Well honestly,
You can get a very good 2000k points for a single army for 40k for about $200 max buying individual figures from ebay. That's still comparable to this hobby.
However, don't let the desire to collect more armies (or apocalypse lv. armies 5000 points and up) and terrain overwhelm you. Then it can get really expensive.
I bought a Squadron Box 1 & 2, plus the 3 frigates set for both Klingon and Fed and then add in Squadron box 3 & 4 plus extra Kziniti frigates and the space station models that easily over $200 for this game just for all the ships in Klingon Border. |
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Rick Smith
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 02 Sep 2008
Posts: 266
Location: Silver Spring, MD
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| Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 6:40 pm Post subject: |
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| djdood wrote: | | Rick Smith wrote: | | djdood wrote: | | GW won't even acknowledge their customers exist (once they have you money). |
Not true. All you have to do is call or email them. They fix things if the product is defective. |
I stand corrected. |
I hope I didn't sound too combative djdood. If I did, I'm sorry.
I used to work at GWUS, first in the casting department, then in inventory/quality control, then mail order and finally in the Promotions/US Studio as part of the Global Web Team. I saw a lot of how the company as a whole operated. They really do care about their customer service. And even recently, I bought a box of Khorne Daemons - there was a miscast where part of one head on the sprue didn't fill out. I took it back to the store and they gladly gave me a new box - then talked me up and told me to bring the unit back in when I had finished painting it. Good people.
I know that GW has this kinda bogeyman stereotype - the HUGE, EVIL HOBBY COMPANY THAT'S OUT TO GET YOU. I think it's a little unfair, but it's there nonetheless. It may stem from the fact that they redo rules or re-release models quite often - but honestly, from my visits to the UK to talk to the designers, they do that because they find better ways to do things, better ways to sculpt and cast the miniatures, and their artists just get better all the time.
Did you know that they now use fully digital process to sculpt most of their plastic models? It's pretty amazing to see actually. It's right up there with creating a starship in a CAD drawing and sending it out to be rapid prototyped and then using that finished tangible object as your master to be cast. Pretty cool stuff!
(Again, sorry as this - my last post in the defense of GW - has nothing to do with cheap paints at hobby stores!)
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djdood
Commodore
Joined: 01 Feb 2007
Posts: 3413
Location: Seattle, WA
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| Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 6:54 pm Post subject: |
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Not a problem Rick. You called me on bad data and I was fessing up.
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Rick Smith
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 02 Sep 2008
Posts: 266
Location: Silver Spring, MD
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| Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 6:59 pm Post subject: |
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However - the topic at hand is cheap supplies...
My only warning would be against the temptation of going too cheap! It's vastly better to buy very very good brushes and take anal retentive care of them then it is to buy the cheapies. This goes for model painting as well as more academic artistic endeavors. The cheaper you go, the more you'll see things like bristles falling out of the ferrule (that metal band that holds the bristles in place against the handle of the brush) or crazy, jutting splits from sub-par bristle hairs.
In the long run, you will probably end up spending more replacing bad brushes than you would buying nice ones and just taking care of them.
And on the topic of brush care, here are a few tips!
Always clean your brushes with cool or mildly luke-warm water and hand soap or special soap from art stores. Tempted as you may be to use steaming hot water, this practice swells and weakens the connection of ferrule, handle and bristles and very soon you'll see all your bristles fall out all over the place...or the ferrule will become really loose and just fall off the handle.
Always store your brushes with the bristles up - and inside that little plastic tube it came in if you can help it. Storing them bristle down will destroy and fan out your bristles in no time!
When charging up your brush with paint, never get the paint all the way up in the ferrule. This is very hard to clean out and will also make the bristles splay.
Reshape the bristles to a point once it's been cleaned and ready to store until the next painting session. This trains the brush to keep its shape.
Use one brush for metallics and another brush for non-metallics. The metal shiny bits suspended in the acrylic medium will muddy and show up in your non-metallics if you use the same brush for both. This also goes for water - try to use one water pot for metallic paints and one for the normal pigments.
Also, have dedicated brushes for drybrushing as drybrushing destroys brushes in no time flat. In this case, cheaper brushes are needed for this painting technique. No use destroying a GOOD brush if you can help it!
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Scoutdad
Commodore
Joined: 09 Oct 2006
Posts: 4754
Location: Middle Tennessee
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| Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 8:56 pm Post subject: |
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I can't agree enough with Rick and his comments on brushes. I will purchase the cheaper paints, but all of my brushes are first rate. No cut corners there.
and the one tip Rick forgot:
always have a spare brush in the size(s) you use most. Nothing ruins the mood (or leads to the completion of a sub-standard mini) than having your last brush wimp out on you. Whether it be bent out of shape... have stray bristles... or what have you. If you've got a spare, you won't be tempted to try and get one last mini out of that brush...
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Rick Smith
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 02 Sep 2008
Posts: 266
Location: Silver Spring, MD
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| Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 9:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Scoutdad wrote: | and the one tip Rick forgot:
always have a spare brush in the size(s) you use most. Nothing ruins the mood (or leads to the completion of a sub-standard mini) than having your last brush wimp out on you. Whether it be bent out of shape... have stray bristles... or what have you. If you've got a spare, you won't be tempted to try and get one last mini out of that brush... |
Yes yes! Good catch Scoutdad!
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Dal Downing
Commander
Joined: 06 May 2008
Posts: 651
Location: Western Wisconsin
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| Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 9:12 pm Post subject: |
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| DorianGray wrote: | Well honestly,
You can get a very good 2000k points for a single army for 40k for about $200 max buying individual figures from ebay. That's still comparable to this hobby.
However, don't let the desire to collect more armies (or apocalypse lv. armies 5000 points and up) and terrain overwhelm you. Then it can get really expensive.
I bought a Squadron Box 1 & 2, plus the 3 frigates set for both Klingon and Fed and then add in Squadron box 3 & 4 plus extra Kziniti frigates and the space station models that easily over $200 for this game just for all the ships in Klingon Border. |
Careful you just compared Apples and Oranges here.
Granted you did just drop $219.55 +Tax on what you listed but your $200 WH40K Army is only 1/4 of the way there. You just bought a Fed, a Klingon, and a Kzinti Fleet plus a few Orions and some Tholians tossed in to round it out. For what 1 Army in WH40K would run you.
This is not a dig just pointing if we are going to start making comparison list make sure the field is level.  Minis for SFB/FC still come out cheaper anyway I look at it.
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"Which one of you is the Biggest, Baddest, Bootlicker of the bunch?"
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Rick Smith
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 02 Sep 2008
Posts: 266
Location: Silver Spring, MD
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| Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 9:28 pm Post subject: |
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One of the cool things about FC or SFB is that you don't HAVE to collect or paint models if you don't want to or it's not really your thing or you're financially fiscal. And in some cases tokens work better than models with stacking, etc.
With GW games (and other tabletop strategy games based on the concept of miniature combat) the whole game is pretty much based on collecting an army of models. This reflects directly into the rules of the game, as you must stoop over the tabletop to get a "model's view" of what they can shoot at (or not see at all, due to cover). Thus models have a real impact in the game - since some can be the "normal" 6' high warrior and some can be towering - like a daemon prince.
I digress.
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Scoutdad
Commodore
Joined: 09 Oct 2006
Posts: 4754
Location: Middle Tennessee
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| Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 10:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Rick Smith wrote: | | One of the cool things about FC or SFB is that you don't HAVE to collect or paint models if you don't want to or it's not really your thing or you're financially fiscal. And in some cases tokens work better than models with stacking, etc. |
Amen. SFB/FC is first and foremost, a board game that happens to lend itself well to enhancement via use of miniatures.
| Quote: | With GW games (and other tabletop strategy games based on the concept of miniature combat) the whole game is pretty much based on collecting an army of models. This reflects directly into the rules of the game, as you must stoop over the tabletop to get a "model's view" of what they can shoot at (or not see at all, due to cover). Thus models have a real impact in the game - since some can be the "normal" 6' high warrior and some can be towering - like a daemon prince.
I digress. |
Remind me to dig out some photos of our "model's-eye" view periscopes we built to prevent stooping.
We had some periscopes that looked like the "gothic-tech" structures prevalent in GW games.
Simply place the "building" behind the model doing the firing and then you could stand straight up, look into the viewing port, and see what it sould see. After a while, one of the guys got really creative and added a laser pointer for added realism! 
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Rick Smith
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 02 Sep 2008
Posts: 266
Location: Silver Spring, MD
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| Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 10:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Remind me to dig out some photos of our "model's-eye" view periscopes we built to prevent stooping.
We had some periscopes that looked like the "gothic-tech" structures prevalent in GW games.
Simply place the "building" behind the model doing the firing and then you could stand straight up, look into the viewing port, and see what it sould see. After a while, one of the guys got really creative and added a laser pointer for added realism! |
Hahaha...that's actually really funny (and nicely creative) - GW just released a laser pointer for LOS that looks like a targeter. You guys just beat them to the punch![/quote]
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Scoutdad
Commodore
Joined: 09 Oct 2006
Posts: 4754
Location: Middle Tennessee
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| Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 11:07 pm Post subject: |
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Where do you think they [GW] got the idea? 
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Bolo_MK_XL
Captain
Joined: 16 Jan 2007
Posts: 836
Location: North Carolina
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| Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 1:08 am Post subject: |
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Carried around a small adjustable mirror on a handle in my Micro-Armor kit for over 20yrs --- Set it behind the vehicle to check around hills/buildings ---
Picked it up in a gaming store sometime in the mid-80s, laser would do wonders to prevent stooping to check the vision --- |
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