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X-Ships
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pneumonic81
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 10:48 pm    Post subject: X-Ships Reply with quote

Since the other eras are being covered, I wonder If X-Ships might also be considered? We use modified X-ship rules in our group in FC and it seems to work fairly well. Its pretty balanced. X ships dont dominate the board. In fact because they often have less internals they sometimes fall prey to bigger ships that have more heavy weapons.

Still they are a fun option to play. Anyone else interested, or are people generally terrified of adding X-tech into FC?
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Steve Cole
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 10:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you mean doing a "setting" book like the Mike West idea for early years, yeah, sure, why not.
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Nerroth
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 11:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

X-tech should be fun - not least if/when the Andromedans are added to the setting!
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Dal Downing
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its your House Rules but, if your XShips are not Dominating the Board you have them underpowered Twisted Evil
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pneumonic81
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 11:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steve - Yeah a setting book for X ships would be just about perfect.

Dal - They dont dominate the board. We wanted them to be balanced based on thier cost. Of course a DDX would totally dominate a DD. but a BCH would have a fair chance against a DDX in our rules set. I feel like this is important because BPV should be a tool used for balancing situations.

That being said, we are considering a minor change to our house rules which might help the X-feds out in our set because they are just barley hanging on Smile.

I would much rather have SVCs version of the X-rules anyway because then I dont have to guess what the best way to convert something is Smile
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jeffery smith
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 6:20 pm    Post subject: X-Ships Reply with quote

as i've said elsewhere, anyway SVC wants to present this is fine by me. Twisted Evil i'll happily purchase this no matter how long the wait for it is.
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Davec_24
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In a way, the reverse of the argument against Early/Middle Years ships (i.e. they are inferior to the ships already present in FC and so nobody will use them) may be true for X-ships. In most cases, I would think X-ships would get used simply because they would be available, and would be superior to conventional ships in terms of sheer combat power for their points value (similar to how most people would choose a D5W over a D7C).

It would be difficult to stop this without having some kind of game timescale context, or scenario-specific rules where the X-ships are not generally and widely available for every game (such as is used for fast drones). I enjoy FC as it is in terms of the sort of ships that are available (i.e. in a General War era setting) and wouldn't like to see many of the ships which are in FC fall into disuse if this were to prove a problem.
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Savedfromwhat
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 10:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Davec you make a great point, and it made me think of a simple wayto keep scenarios balanced. Specifically by listing whether ships from the middle/early/x-tech/etc. could be used. "Standard ships only", which would be anything without a letter in front of (or is it behind) it's card number. I don't think this would be too much work for future scenrios but it would be a quick fix that wouldn't need an era format to be used.
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pinecone
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 10:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't forget that weaker/stronger ships have smaller/bigger point values.
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Davec_24
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 10:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's not too bad an idea, and if a proper expansion was made which contained X-ships we would have a whole bunch of scenarios where they would be allowed so the fact that you couldn't use them in most current FC scenarios wouldn't really be an issue.

The question would be, how would you stop people going on an X-ship rampage (i.e. using them just because they can) in player-generated battles, without introducing an era system? In the case of fast drones, these can only be used in very specific circumstances(i.e. when a scenario says so or is set after a certain year), and in a player-generated battle could only be used with the consent of both players - would such a system be suitable for X-ships too, in order to prevent them being used almost every game? This is all hypothetical anyway, but I suppose these issues could do with being addressed, otherwise there will be players who will resent the idea of X-ships being introduced because they would always get used.
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Davec_24
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 10:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pinecone wrote:
Don't forget that weaker/stronger ships have smaller/bigger point values.


This is mostly true, but certain types of ship tend to have more "punch" for their cost in points. For example, War Cruisers typically pack more firepower, shields and energy than a pre-war light cruiser and are more effective in combat as a result, even though they are often less tough in terms of internal damage they can sustain. This is sometimes true of heavy cruisers Vs NCAs such as in the case of the D5W Vs the D7C (the D5W is a much better ship in terms of sheer combat power despite its similar points cost). This would probably be true of the X-ships by the same token - X-ships have less internal hits than a "normal" ship of the same points value (since the "normal" ship will be a larger hull size), but will often have a greater combat performance in terms of speed, energy efficiency, firepower, etc. than the "normal" ship.
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pinecone
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 12:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Then a player opposed to using X-ships should beef up on War Cruisers.
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mjwest
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 12:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Honestly (and this is just unfounded subjective opinion), I would imagine that X-ships would sell enough to do in normal Attack modules, with laminated ship cards and counters. I fully expect that X-ships would outsell Early Years and Middle Years combined. (Actually, I wouldn't even expect it to be close.)
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pneumonic81
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 2:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We use house rules x ships at my group and we control them fairly well. First of all, the newest sfb x ship rules have toned them down, making them better overal additions to the universe. second, we have found that the fast play of fedcom actually evens things out against x ships and non x ships. If you take a 250 x ship, and I take a 250 dreadnought, I have just as much chance as you to win.

I know some of you dont really like that idea, but whats cool about it is, in any given match you mgiht see a wide variety of ships show up. Our big game night will often see 8 people on our giant game board, ina free for all type situation. Whats really fun is seeing the variety of ships people pick. I might give a point value of 250 and see a x ship, a dreadnought, a cruiser and destory combo, a carrier and a pair of light cruisers. And beleive it or not, for the most part, its pretty balanced for everyone.

Its just more variety for people to choose. sometimes I feel like small and manuverable 150 point x ship with 3 heavy weapons, sometimes I feel like a 150 NCA, and both are viable and enjoyable ships.
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Paul B
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 6:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mjwest wrote:
Honestly (and this is just unfounded subjective opinion), I would imagine that X-ships would sell enough to do in normal Attack modules, with laminated ship cards and counters. I fully expect that X-ships would outsell Early Years and Middle Years combined. (Actually, I wouldn't even expect it to be close.)


You know what would (might) help the sale of E and M ships.
Packaging them with X ships.

That might tick some people off, but personally as long as the boosters are largely centred on one race (as in, at least 6 of 8 cards) I'd be content myself.
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