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Federation Commander Training Mission
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USS Enterprise
Lieutenant Commander


Joined: 27 Feb 2009
Posts: 376
Location: Vulcan

PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 7:08 pm    Post subject: Federation Commander Training Mission Reply with quote

Wih drones homing on my ship at speed 32. I beat it with a fleet scale ship! (Klingon Battlecruiser)

It said in the rules that nobody's done this (At the time of writing) I'm sure somebody's done it now. Who has and with what ship?

My Rulings: Can fire heavy weapons and Drones at the Drones, but cannot use ADDs.

Drones which fly off the map are considered to be destroyed.

Has anyone else done this and are my rulings correct or not?
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USS Enterprise
Lieutenant Commander


Joined: 27 Feb 2009
Posts: 376
Location: Vulcan

PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I now did it at Speed 40 (Same Ship) Aren't I awesome. PS: Do speed 40 by having them move in each pulse but moving 2 squares in sub pulse 4.
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pinecone
Fleet Captain


Joined: 03 May 2008
Posts: 1865
Location: Earth

PostPosted: Fri Apr 10, 2009 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Was this before or after you joined the fourm as USS Enterprise?

when it comes to the enterprise, all bets are off Wink .
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USS Enterprise
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Joined: 27 Feb 2009
Posts: 376
Location: Vulcan

PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

After, but it was a Klingon Ship. How or Why Kirk got the Enterprise switched to a Klingon D7 nobody knows Wink
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pinecone
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Joined: 03 May 2008
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Location: Earth

PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The klink D7 USS Enterprise vs. the Fed CA Bortas... I like it! Very Happy
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storeylf
Fleet Captain


Joined: 24 Jul 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didn't think it was possible to lose with a D7?

If I remember correct there are 8 drones, you have a drone (auto kill), 5 phaser 1/2s (auto kills in defensive fire) and 2 tractors (auto hold till turn 2 when you auto kill them), so even with speed 64+ drones a D7 should still not take a hit.

Even if you go to 6 map panels and 12 drones, the 2 disrupters and the ADD should still handle the extra drones so long as you stagger the extra drones over various impulses so the ADD gets to take out multiple drones. Against 12 drones the success rate should still be in the 80% region.

The Fed CA would be one to boast about, In turn 1 it only has 1 tractor and 4 guaranteed kills, 5 if you use the drone rather than keep it for ADD useage, The photons are guaranteed kills at range 1, which requires a bit of manouvering to achieve. The Fed CA on 6 maps and 12 drones is in quite a bit of trouble, it has to avoid a turn 1 impact from something, probably multiple somethings, as the only way it can deal with 12 drones in a turn is to use the drone as an ADD 4 times (which means spreading the impacts out over 4 impulses) and the phaser 3. That promptly drops your success rate to 16% at best.
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USS Enterprise
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Joined: 27 Feb 2009
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Location: Vulcan

PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're forgetting, I don't use ADDs (For this mission it feels kinda cheap) and Although I never specifically decided I wouldn't use tractors, I never decided to do so. I did however, Use Disrupters and Drones.

Phasors in defensive fire are auto kills? Are you sure. If so, I really got that rule off. We've always just rolled the die (You continue to need 4 damage to destroy drones in the scenario, do you not. This is the way I played)

Well, if I really got all these rules wrong enough, just gives me more to brag about.

PS: You do realize this was in Fleet Scale. And if what I did isn't impressive, why does it say in the rules, No fleet scale ship has succeded at speed 32, (Or was this just for historical basis.)

Oh, and I only used 4 map panels and 8 drones. Yes, fewer drones but nowhere to run and nowhere to hide.
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pinecone
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Joined: 03 May 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I could be mistaken, but aren't phasers the only things you're alowed to use in this scenario?
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USS Enterprise
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Joined: 27 Feb 2009
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It doesn't say that, but you could be right about the intent. That would make things a lot harder wouldn't it? I actually settled on a compromise though, allowing Disrupters and Drones to be used but no ADDs and Tractors.

Well, my reasoning for that was ADDs feel cheap in that scenario. I don't know why I said no tractors, maybe just cause its easier, and you know who my captain is, and Kirk doesn't take the easy way!
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storeylf
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Joined: 24 Jul 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are no restrictions on weapons, it says it will be hard with fewer phasers for the obvious reason that they are the most efficient way of taking out drones, and when it comes to defensive fire they are the only weapon apart from ADD that can be used. [and the fact that the basic scenario has the drones running off map so you need long range weapons to kill them, rather than defensive fire]

It does in fact go on to say that once you get used to the basics (remember its a training mission for new players) then keep playing it using your heavy weapons and drones.

Phasers are not auto kill as a rule, but in practise the phaser 1 and 2s which is what I mentioned, and what the D7 has, will always kill a drone during defensive fire, as they do at least 4 points of damage.

Yes I realse it was fleet scale, a Fleet scale D7 has 5 phasers (1 and 2), 2 disrupters, a drone, an ADD and 2 tractors. The phasers cover a wide variety of arcs, so between them and 2 tractors you only really have just 1 drone to actualy worry about dealing with via disrupters, add or drone. The drone is also auto kill, so you have nothing to worry about. You never actually had to use the ADD.

You might find ADD makes it 'cheap' in a D7 (even though you don't need it), but like I was indicating, a D7 is one of the easier (cruiser size) ships to use for the 'final' training mission where the drones home in on you, to the point of being almost impossible not to succeed against 8 drones. If you want to live up to your namesake, and pretend you are kirk then use the Fed CA on a 6 map panel with 12 drones. You will need to use all your systems, and fancy manouvering to have any chance.

As to why they say it has never been done by a fleet scale ship, I've no idea. I've wondered that myself sometimes, and can't help but think that the scenario is not explaining something, as there are several fleet scale ships that can beat it easily. Whenever I read that sentence I can't help but go back and re-read the whole scenario thinking I've missed something.
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USS Enterprise
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2009 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're probobly right about the Heavy Cruiser, and you're probobly right that the Federation Heavy Cruiser is a lot harder (Unless its the Enterprise, lol.)

However, with the ADDs, all you need is luck, (And not to run out. Unless I'm missing something.)
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Scoutdad
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Joined: 09 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2009 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

USS Enterprise wrote:

However, with the ADDs, all you need is luck, (And not to run out. Unless I'm missing something.)

you only get one ADD shot at each incoming drone. The ADD's can only be fired in the Defensive Fire Phase and ven then, only in the impulse in which it impacts.

It a drone impacts your ship in Impulse 2 and you fire an ADD at and miss, you then have options. A Phaser-1 is and autokill, but let's dsay you only have Phaser-3's left. You fire a phaser-3 and roll a 6. Lo and behold, the drone is still there and since you've already declared fire - your only options are to tractor it or let it hit, so you tractor it.
On the next Impulse (#3), you cannot fire another ADD at it, as it has already impacted during a previous Impulse. You could fire another phaser at it (if you had one in arc and available) or you can continue to hold it in the tractor beam until the turn break, at which point you could ADD it again.
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Mike
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Joined: 07 May 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2009 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scoutdad, are you sure about using an ADD on the same drone twice???

I thought I remembered a rule about only being able to use an ADD on a drone only once. Phasers over different impulses can be used though.
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Bolo_MK_XL
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Joined: 16 Jan 2007
Posts: 787
Location: North Carolina

PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2009 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You could designate more than one ADD vs the drone (count ammo off even if the first hits), but once you tractor it, ADD is unable to be used against it again ----

Something about the tractor being released, then another attempt, someone else will have to give you the right info on that one ---

Don't forget as an energy saving tactic, Phaser I's can be fired as P-3's (Half point of energy vs 1 point) ---
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Scoutdad
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2009 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the tractor is not continued over the turn break, the drone re-impacts and can be re-ADD'ed and/or re-tractored on Turn 2.
Unlike the immediate impact if you drop/destroy the tractor beam mid-turn. Kinda weird, but there it is.
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