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Acceleration Variant Rule Idea
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USS Enterprise
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Joined: 27 Feb 2009
Posts: 376
Location: Vulcan

PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That sounds more realistic, but also more complex. I have no qualms with the rules as they stand.
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Mike
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Joined: 07 May 2007
Posts: 1562
Location: South Carolina

PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Though it would "break the movement system," I kind of like the "one sideslip per Impulse" idea.

Tracking those turn points is bad enough. Not having to track sideslips would free things up considerably.

Of course, this would hurt drones...
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MajerBlundor
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Joined: 03 Apr 2009
Posts: 123

PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

USS Enterprise wrote:
That sounds more realistic, but also more complex. I have no qualms with the rules as they stand.


Here's the whole text of the house rule:

"Ships may slide slip once per impulse".

All that other stuff (ratio, etc.) I wrote simply explains the implications of the simplified rule above (sorry for the confusion!) . Also, the official rule requires a slip point counter on the table. This rule eliminates that clutter...personally I prefer as few "status" markers as possible.

In fact, the current rule can lead to a discussion on the definition of "slip mode": is it "All ships have a slip mode of 1" or "All ships have a slip mode of 2"? I think Mike West said 2 and someone else said 1, but in action they were describing the same implementation (I think).
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USS Enterprise
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You must move straight ahead for each time you slip at all times
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Bolo_MK_XL
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Joined: 16 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Changing the side slip will also change tactics, especially against drones and somewhat against plasma ---

It will totally destroy the way most Klingons operate ---
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MajerBlundor
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 10:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

USS Enterprise wrote:
You must move straight ahead for each time you slip at all times


Maybe you do! Smile

Actually, our house rule is more or less restrictive based on speed. Assuming "max slippage" ratio is below:

4 hexes per impulse... 3 straight + 1 slip

3 hexes per impulse... 2 straight + 1 slip

2 hexes per impulse... 1 straight + 1 slip

1 hex per impulse... 1 slip
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MajerBlundor
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 11:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bolo_MK_XL wrote:
Changing the side slip will also change tactics, especially against drones and somewhat against plasma ---

It will totally destroy the way most Klingons operate ---


Actually it's all speed dependent.

The house rule hurts a federation ship charging in with photons fully armed at speed 24+ against a Klingon (the slip angle is much more shallow). Effectively side slipping at 24+ means fewer move options relative to lower speed ships.

At speed 8 it's easier to Sabre Dance since your slip angle is "steeper" than the official rule..

At 2 hexes per impulse it's pretty much the same as the official rule.

We've come to prefer the greater contrast between speeds as a result. Instead of only varying turn modes and hexes moved per impulse slip angle changes with speed which makes more intuitive sense. You really feel the impact of higher speeds on maneuver options.

Tim
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Bolo_MK_XL
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Joined: 16 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 11:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
At speed 8 it's easier to Sabre Dance since your slip angle is "steeper" than the official rule..


At speed 8 you couldn't even Sabre Dance against a planet ----

Always seemed to me that people change things because they can't adapt to whats put in front of them --- So they set things up to support their style instead of working to make their style work within the given framework ---

[Mod: Let's not let this degenerate. Talking about house rules is OK. Talking about why there are house rules is not.]
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MajerBlundor
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

re: Sabre dancing at speed-8: the superior speed-8 side slip capability (relative to the official slip rule) feeds firing solutions and later maneuvers. It's the start, not the end.

With our house rule a speed 8 ship can move at a more lateral angle so it's easier to line up shots as an enemy approaches. This many be done for just a few impulses. Combined with our house movement rule (speed 8 ships can move 0 or 1 hex each impulse) this allows the ship to better control closure rate and angle by not moving/moving forward/side slipping each impulse. In other words, it literally has more options as to which hexes it can occupy compared to the official, speed-independent slip rule.

At that point the ship turns (typically at turn mode 1 or 2) and then accelerates away at speed 16 by paying power equal to 8 hexes of movement (thus no fractional movement need be tracked). It is now positioned to both flee an enemy and use its aft phasers (and it can use side phasers as it turns). Total power used for movement is equal to speed 16, it's new speed (it can now move 1 or 2 hexes per impulse, side slipping once per impulse).

For example, an F5 with battery charged (power 11 in fleet scale) and initial speed 8 can fire its forward phaser, drone, and disruptor and then turn about at turn mode 1, fire its two aft phasers and accelerate to speed 16 and then 24 (total power expended = 11). During any initial approach, the firing of its forward weapons, and its turn it could be side slipping at a 1:1 ratio to either improve its own firing solution or to frustrate that of an enemy.

The corollary is also true. At higher speeds the angle of slip/forward movement is reduced over several impulses compared to lower speeds. Set too high a base speed at with only one slip per impulse you'll have a harder time setting up a shot.

Personally I prefer greater contrast in player choices since that generally leads to a deeper game experience and demands more skill. This is why I enjoy FC/SFB shield and weapon arcs so much. The don't make literal sense (just roll the ship and design better arcs when the ships are built!) but they make for a wonderful game experience!

If all ships at all speeds have the same slip capability there's less opportunity to make better or worse decisions using slip maneuvers. But with greater contrast comes greater opportunity to both succeed and fail at specific maneuver choices (ie higher speed vs better slip angle...which do I use in a given situation?)

So it's a bit like speed-dependent turn modes but still not ship-specific as turn modes are. And that's ok with me since I also prefer easier-to-implement rules, especially easier rules that provide for more complex player choices! Tracking both turn and slip points requires two markers. The house slip rule eliminates the slip point marker (easier to implement) but since it's speed-dependent the choice of speed now has a significant impact on slip angle making for a richer game experience.

Tim
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USS Enterprise
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Joined: 27 Feb 2009
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Location: Vulcan

PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds like an interesting rule. Thanks for the clarification.
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Bloodnok
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Joined: 11 Jul 2009
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 3:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MajerBlundor wrote:
Tracking both turn and slip points requires two markers.


No, it doesn't. I'm amazed the system I outline hasn't caught on.

When you make a sideslip, leave your Point Of Turn counter where it is, which is now in a different hexrow to your ship. When you move forwards, move your POT counter obliquely back into the hexrow directly behind the ship. You cannot sideslip if you are not in the same hexrow as your POT counter. The distance between you and POT counter is always the correct number of hexes moved towards your turn mode.

When decelerating, move the counter directly backwards one hex, not changing the hexrow - decelerated moves still count for turn mode but not slip mode.

The only gotcha is moving away from a situation that leaves your turn and slip modes both at zero - after a period at Stopped or if you decelerate the move immediately after a turn. The first move actually made in this situation must be straight forwards, because there is no way to fulfil your slip mode with decelerated moves.

I don't see this as a serious gotcha because it is equally true with conventional use of POT and POS counters that you just have to remember that detail.
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