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Poll: What would you pay for PDFs?
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What is the MOST you would you pay for a set of the 72 color PDFs for FCB2?
$100
2%
 2%  [ 1 ]
$75
4%
 4%  [ 2 ]
$50
12%
 12%  [ 6 ]
$25
32%
 32%  [ 16 ]
$10
18%
 18%  [ 9 ]
I would rather pay $100 for a set of real color-laminated cards.
32%
 32%  [ 16 ]
Total Votes : 50

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Mike
Captain


Joined: 07 May 2007
Posts: 1529
Location: South Carolina

PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 2:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And with enough patience, even a simple program like Microsoft's Paint can be used to make ship cards that look every bit just like an official one. All you need is a little time and patience. Of course, you can't legally distribute them.
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Paul B
Lieutenant SG


Joined: 27 Dec 2006
Posts: 189

PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is an old poll, but I would never buy a PDF.
Even the briefings quite honestly are a bit unappealing for me. The core of this game is the ship cards and the ease of re-usability. I'll never print them out an laminate them myself. Nor am I likely to even bother with the briefings ships unless I were playing in a campaign and needed some ship or other.
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Predator06
Lieutenant JG


Joined: 18 Dec 2006
Posts: 71
Location: WV, OH, KY tri state region.

PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 9:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm Old fashioned I guess.

I Much prefer a good old fashioned Book, with a nice color cover that I can hold in my hands.

As for SSD cards, I absolutely LOVE the Pre laminated color card stock.

Having the actual ADB made cards just makes them more special some how.

Sort of like Collecting Baseball cards, except there aren't any rare ones.

I like flipping threw my ring binder with all the beautiful pre laminated cards stored neatly in there clear plastic page protectors. And going "Oh wow I want / need to get a few Fed DW cards!

Collecting the cards is almost as neat as collecting the minis.
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Steve Cole
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Joined: 11 Oct 2006
Posts: 3051

PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 4:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The problem is that cards are expensive to make and cannot really be made in less than 1000 sheet lots, and sales of Booster 91 are 1/4 of that.

I am looking into ways to "print on demand" but that gets icky.

One way can be done easily but the cost of the cards would be about seven times what we're paying for them in lots of 3000 (the usual quantity).

The other way involves spending about $15,000 for equipment, but that equipment would print a lot of things we now "buy from outside".
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Predator06
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Joined: 18 Dec 2006
Posts: 71
Location: WV, OH, KY tri state region.

PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 12:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

But you asked our opinions, and thats my honest one.

I just love the cards as they are. Call me old fashioned, but I just love em.

I have been buying yer stuff for 25 years and I don't think a format change will make me quit doing that. I will be disappointed if I cant get the full color pre laminated card stock anymore for sure. But it wont make me stop playing.

The problem for me is, I don't have access to a printer to print out cards downloaded from PDF. Witch is no big deal for me because I prefer the cards as is.

And the problem for you is, If its available for download, why buy more then one card for each ship if people can just buy a PDF and burn off copys?

Right now if I want 3 D7 cards I pay for each of them. And to be honest I really don't mind doing that because the cards are really nice as is.

But others who can just DL a pdf copy for that D7, will never have to buy a D7 from you again, and that equals lost revenue.

Not to mention, All the people who will just burn off copy's of there PDF for there friends. Which means there friends wont be paying for your product.

Some of us are honest and wont do that. But if given access to PDF versions, I dont think most people out there will be honest.

I think PDFs will only hurt you and the game. Unless you have a secret hit squad of ISF goons that will go door to door to all of your PDF customers, locking them in your agonizer booth if they get out of line.

If you open yourself up to abuse, you will be abused. Thats just life man.

So protect your self and the game, and don't go PDF.
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unic
Ensign


Joined: 28 Dec 2009
Posts: 6
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 2:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The poll is closed, but I'd happily pay for physical cards. Both pdf-files (free like the Communique or commercial ones) and products with paper black/white cards that needs photocopying (Captain's Log or the Briefings) are in the end quite useless to me - possibly I'll look at the ships a bit, but will never actually play with them. (Which is a shame when the ships look as interesting as the ones in Briefing #2 do...)

(Still, for some stupid reason, I do buy physical products like the briefings... most be the collector part of me wanting it all. But pdfs - yuck - I doubt even the collector part of me could convince me to spend any money on them.)
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Barry Kirk
Lieutenant JG


Joined: 26 Dec 2008
Posts: 46
Location: York, PA

PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a couple of questions...

Can Kinkos print out laminated cards of high quality? I know it would be expensive on a per card basis.

The reason I ask is this. I typically play two to three games per year of Fed Commander.

I'm mostly a SFB player.

When I play Fed Commander, it is typically at a gaming convention. Here is the scenerio I envision.

1) Sitting down with the people I'm going to play with and deciding what ships to use.
2) Online order the individual ships to use for that battle, and have ADB send the PDFs to Kinkos who would print them out and laminate them.
3) Pick up the ships and bring them back to the convention.

There are costs and benefits to this from both ADB and the player.

1. You don't have to lug this huge library of cards around to the convention. I've got enough other stuff to bring.

2. Your not limited to playing the ships that you bring to the convention. If somebody wants to play three Hydran Battleships or seven D7s... Your covered.

3. Your not buying stuff that you will never use. I know that a lot of people here are collectors, but some of us aren't.

4. The vast majority of ship cards I own have never been used. And there are a couple of times, where the game I played wasn't the one I wanted to because I didn't have the cards for it.

5. Since the PDFs never are in the gamers hands, the idea is that Fed Ex Kinkos could be "trusted".

6. If the player wants to go a little cheaper, they can have Fed Ex skip the laminating process. And they have a record of the game they played.

7.Since the ship card is printed on the day of the battle, the players know that they are using the latest version of it. You don't have any worries about having an older version of the ship card. This usually isn't a problem.

8. No combination ship cards where two ships are combined on the same card to save space. You get exactly what you want. This is particularly useful for borders of madness type scenerious where your using PF.

What ADB could do is distribute a neutered PDF version of the ship cards that would not be usuable for play, but would allow the player to pick the ships they want to play.

Maybe a ship in monochrome with bold lettering on top of it saying SAMPLE NOT FOR ACTUAL PLAY.

The distribution PDF could be purchased at low cost, but would not be collectible or usuable for actual play. It would be useful to help select ships for a battle.
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JimDauphinais
Commander


Joined: 22 Nov 2009
Posts: 756
Location: Chesterfield, MO

PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In case folks have missed it, in the FC:Project Eleven folder of the Federaiton Commander section of the Discus-BBS, Steve Cole indicated that ADB has finally made a decision in regard to Briefing #2. My understanding is that it will be made available for sale as a PDF, but it may not be made available until after Origins.
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St. Louis Area Fed Comm Group: http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/STL_Federation_Commander/
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Steve Cole
Site Admin


Joined: 11 Oct 2006
Posts: 3051

PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We will get it done as soon as we can, but it takes more time than zero, and I've got a lot of things to get ready for Origins. I just got CL41 to press yesterday, and I have to have the W&P cards to press Wednesday. Some of them have been done and checked, some done but not checked, some not done yet, so taking out the hour to get FCB2 on e23 isn't doable this week. Maybe next week, if nothing else, after Origins.
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domingojs23
Lieutenant SG


Joined: 30 May 2010
Posts: 150
Location: Geneva CH / Manila RP

PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear ADB Friends,

Could you guys perhaps make master race PDF compilations ?... Umm, maybe that didn't come out right, I mean coming out with say race-specific master compilation PDF manuals of ship cards ?

Thanks !

Gary
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Bolo_MK_XL
Commander


Joined: 16 Jan 2007
Posts: 785
Location: North Carolina

PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The term Race has fallen out of use in the SFU ---

EMPIRE is the term now in fashion --

Plus, anything in a Product in print won't be served up in a PDF ---
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domingojs23
Lieutenant SG


Joined: 30 May 2010
Posts: 150
Location: Geneva CH / Manila RP

PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear SVC and Friends,

I brought this up in the Captain's Log Board, but it was suggested I mention it here - what about making PDFs of all Captain's Logs to date available by download or on a CD/DVD compilation ? And for that matter, have all future Captain's Logs downloadable, as watermarked PDFs ?

Thanks !

Gary
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pinecone
Fleet Captain


Joined: 03 May 2008
Posts: 1865
Location: Earth

PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steve Cole wrote:
The other way involves spending about $15,000 for equipment, but that equipment would print a lot of things we now "buy from outside".


SVC, what if the people actually donated to ADB for this purpose? I'm not sure if anyone would really do it or if it would be practical, but getting that equipment would surely save ADB some problems. If $5000 was donated, would you go ahead and buy the printer?

This may be very stupid, but I'm just thinking out loud...
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Steve Cole
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 3:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pinecone: the simple answer is "I don't know, I'd have to run the numbers."

The problem at the moment is that the economy (which has never affected wargames sales before) has affected sales this time, and we're kinda watching the market and the economy before spending big chunks of money.
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pinecone
Fleet Captain


Joined: 03 May 2008
Posts: 1865
Location: Earth

PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steve Cole wrote:
Pinecone: the simple answer is "I don't know, I'd have to run the numbers."

The problem at the moment is that the economy (which has never affected wargames sales before) has affected sales this time, and we're kinda watching the market and the economy before spending big chunks of money.


I see, that's probably a smart move. Well, good luck making proper predictions. Hopefully things will level out soon.
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