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Range 15 Disrupters? The Effect?
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USS Enterprise
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Joined: 27 Feb 2009
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Location: Vulcan

PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2009 6:48 pm    Post subject: Range 15 Disrupters? The Effect? Reply with quote

Really, as far as I'd think, not much. I've only played such a ship once, but it seems logical that it wouldn't mean much. I've never fired at range 25.

Has anyone fired at range 16 or greater. Have you ever lost a game or been majorly inconveinienced due to being unable to fire Disrupters at range 16 or greater.
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Scoutdad
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PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2009 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're right - it's not necessarily much of an effect, but it is there.

Frigates are at a major disadvantage in base assaults as they must close to within 15 hexes to fire everything; and at that range the phaser-4s cut right through them.

I have also fired at more than 16 hexes in fleet battles. An 11 ship Klingon fleet against a 10 ship Kzinti fleet.
Due to my opponents positioning, I was able to fire with great effect on a lone frigate. The Kzinti launched a huge wave of drones and then turned off (why? I don't know. I'd have followed up with a second salvo and then tried to overrun... but that's just me). Once the opposing fleet turned, I was able to run up to about 18 hexes and fire everything at a lone frigate that was out on the near flank.
Sure, not a lot of damage from any one weapon... but enough disruptors and phasers connecting for even a little damage adds up.

After that, we were an 11 ship Klingon fleet pursuing a 9 ship fleet.
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USS Enterprise
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PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2009 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But in 1 ship against 1 in Duel, it doesn't mean much does it?
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mjwest
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PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2009 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In a duel, anything past range 15 is probably irrelevant. You have to get closer than that to do relevant damage.

Now in squadron or fleet battles, it can start to make a difference. If you have five ships with an average of 4 disruptors each, that can start to add up to real damage.
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Steve Cole
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PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2009 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am not grasping the point. Are you saying that the effect is so negligible we could have just left the rule out and simplified the game? Perhaps so, but the "added complexity" is so trivial that I'd rather do what I always do and HONOR THE ENGINEERING which says that small hulls have short range disruptors. This also means that SFB and FC play alike, instead of creating one more "wrinkle" where FC players get away with stuff SFB players cannot do.
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mjwest
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PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2009 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't speak for anyone else, but I certainly am not implying that.

I was simply saying that for a simple one-on-one duel, those extra 10 hexes don't add up to much. But, those 10 hexes become quite relevant in multi-ship engagements.

So, it is quite relevant and useful to keep in the game. It just isn't always completely relevant in every possible scenario.
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MajerBlundor
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PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2009 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In a game involving an attack on a convoy we saw long range disruptor fire being important against freighters. Of course, their shields are weaker, but we really liked the effect. Sort of felt like long range torpedo runs from WWII sub warfare. Not a great chance to hit but when they connected against freighters the effects were sufficient.

Long range fire can also be useful in the "end game" against crippled ships. In duels sometimes both ships are terribly battered. Against a Fed ship seeking to separate while rearming photons long range disruptor fire can be useful against weakened or downed shields.
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USS Enterprise
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PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2009 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steve, first of all, I wasn't implying anything about leaving it out, merely requesting the "why," something I've been graciously given. In a duel however, it is a nearly (But not totally) useless rule. Since all but 1 of my games thus far have been duels (The other being a 300 point Squadron duel) I really haven't thought about things other then standard duel in my calculations. Now, this is something I'd like the forum members to chew on. What if we made the limits 8 instead of 15? Am I pulling for this? No and I'd not like the rules to be changed, but what would be the effects on the Klingon. Seems to me the Saber Dance would be null and void and you'd just go in for overloads and dance out.
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Steve Cole
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PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2009 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Over three decades of this job, I've seen almost every why question turn into a "well, then, change it" proposal and I get a little gunshy.
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terryoc
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PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2009 9:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@USS Enterprise: If the limit on small ships was 8 instead of 15, Klingons would almost always lose vs photon torpedo-armed ships. The key to the sabre dance is that at range 13-15 disruptors cause more damage, on average, than photons. So you dance at 13-15 a couple of turns, weakening a shield, then go in to exchange overloads. The Klingon is firing at a damaged shield while showing a strong shield to the enemy, and should suffer about the same internal damage as the Federation ship, but then his disruptors cycle faster and he gains an advantage.
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Bolo_MK_XL
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PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2009 10:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Personally, it sounds more like sour grapes from a Fed player who hasn't found a way around the better odds the distrupter has over the photon at longer ranges ---

They have the best of everything, then whine when their opponents won't play the game by their rules --
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USS Enterprise
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PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2009 12:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually, I've never used a Frigate in a 1 on 1 battle, and was just speculating. It seems to me that the Disrupter affect really wasn't really to effect duels much (Really, who fires at range 25 in 1 VS 1 Duels.) Now, I was never advocating a change, but asking how bad the affect would be and how much weaker the F5 would be, and to me it sounds pretty bad.

Now, I actually like the Klinks more then the Feds right now, though I love the Feds and Kzinti (The 3 I've really played) and really, its no sour grapes. But really, what if the limit were changed to 12. Would the change be a huge or slight one.
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Bolo_MK_XL
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PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2009 1:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
But really, what if the limit were changed to 12.


Not very much since damage output and odds of hitting is the same at 15 as at 12 --- Just have to be a bit more careful the way the F5 approaches a faster target ---

Most items remained the same from SFB to FC and some changed, of the changes, it wouldn't hurt my feelings if Feedback was included in FC ----
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USS Enterprise
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PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2009 1:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Although, against the Feds, the Klingons would have to be much more careful against the Feds, and the F5 might just consider ducking into range 8 and overloading the disrupters.
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Kang
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PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2009 7:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frigate actions are great, and in case you haven't yet done a frigate vs. frigate fight, I can thoroughly recommend them as a whole load of interesting fun.

Especially challenging is to fly a Klingon F5 vs, a Kzinti FF - a classic match-up, but not as easy as it sounds [from either side] when played by good players. This makes an interesting tactical challenge and is well worth the time invested.

Damage takes longer to repair and is much more critical in a frigate. Also the firepower-to-protection ratio is very different from a cruiser. It's so different fighting frigates that I remember being quite surprised when fighting a cruiser action and my opponent just shrugged off a drone impact on an intact shield. In a frigate, that shield would have been partly or even completely dropped by that drone.

Anyway, where did you think Klingon Battlecruiser captains come from?
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