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Baseline Tactics
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Requete
Lieutenant JG


Joined: 15 Jul 2008
Posts: 75
Location: Leander, TX

PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2009 5:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scoutdad wrote:
YMMV, but I think movement priority matters a great deal.

If I move last, then I have the choice of where to go to facilitate a better / more advantagous shot...
Contrarily, if my opponent moves last - he chooses how / where to move.


Yes... this much I know! Getting to shoot a downed shield instead of a full one, or getting to scoot out of an enemy's prickly FA arc, can mean the difference between victory and defeat.
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Kang
Fleet Captain


Joined: 23 Sep 2007
Posts: 1967
Location: Devon, UK

PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2009 8:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Requete wrote:
Scoutdad wrote:
YMMV, but I think movement priority matters a great deal.

If I move last, then I have the choice of where to go to facilitate a better / more advantagous shot...
Contrarily, if my opponent moves last - he chooses how / where to move.


Yes... this much I know! Getting to shoot a downed shield instead of a full one, or getting to scoot out of an enemy's prickly FA arc, can mean the difference between victory and defeat.

Plus it's the defensive aspect too. If you want to avoid being in a particular weapons arc of your enemy, for example the FA arc of a Fed CA or Klingon D7, then if he moves first, you can choose where to move in order to get out of his primary fire arc. This can be important at any range, but especially once you get in close. At knife range [0-2 hexes], as has been said earlier, the movement order can become a matter of life and death.

Against some opponents, such as Gorn ships, the defensive aspect may not be as important because they have their weapons arcs spread much more evenly around their ships. However if, as in an above example, he's got a huge pile of plasma to launch at you, then you want to avoid range zero at all costs. This is the basis of the 'zero-energy anchor'; plasma launched in the same hex will always hit on the next movement sub-pulse no matter what.

For that reason, again, the defensive aspect is critical as it dictates who gets to choose what shield that plasma will hit.
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USS Enterprise
Lieutenant Commander


Joined: 27 Feb 2009
Posts: 376
Location: Vulcan

PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2009 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not arguing that it doesn't matter, just that you should go Speed 24 for speed 24, not just for movement priority.
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Kang
Fleet Captain


Joined: 23 Sep 2007
Posts: 1967
Location: Devon, UK

PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2009 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

USS Enterprise wrote:
I'm not arguing that it doesn't matter, just that you should go Speed 24 for speed 24, not just for movement priority.

That's a fair point, but as with all these things, it depends. Sure, you can move at 24 by declaring speed 24, or you can do it by doing 16+1 for all eight impulses. This will give you more power flexibility, because your power is not committed to speed for certain, as it would be if you were speed 24. On the other hand, if you wanted to go faster than 24 that turn, you couldn't; a similar point occurs if you ARE speed 24 and you want to go slower - you have to pay to decelerate against power you have already paid in order to move. Given that the move priority can be a pretty big issue....

...what I'm saying is that it depends on what's happening. If you are at range 24 and heading away from your opponent, especially if he is facing away from you [because then he has to turn around], then that is perhaps a good time to go speed 8 or 8+1 away from him, then the nearest he's going to get is 16 hexes even if he can turn fast, which he can't do at speed 24 without a HET. A good time, perhaps, to repair some shields, charge your ESG and/or your batteries, launch a six-point suicide shuttle, whatever power-hungry tasks you can perform with all that spare power.
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Mike
Captain


Joined: 07 May 2007
Posts: 1563
Location: South Carolina

PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2009 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The more one plays the game, the more one realizes that mastering the game mechanics is what produces more wins than losses. And movement priority is one of those game mechanics.

Many might think that for close-in situations a slower speed with more discretionary power would be advisable. As has been shown by several previous examples, however, movement priority at a key moment can make the difference between life among the stars or becoming space dust.
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Scoutdad
Commodore


Joined: 09 Oct 2006
Posts: 4470
Location: Middle Tennessee

PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2009 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike wrote:
The more one plays the game, the more one realizes that mastering the game mechanics is what produces more wins than losses.


This is one of the best statements made on this board recently. Several other players and I who read this board frequently have been discussing the recent trend in the forum topics to ask for "the best tactic...". "the best ship...", or "the best speed...". It's often difficult to explain to a newcomer to the game that there is no single "best..."

We recently had a younger player (19 to 20 years old) take up the game. For the first two or three months, he would always ask similar questions. We tried to explain to him the sheer volume / variety of ways to play... but he was used to computer games with an ultimatelt unbeatable combo and cheat codes that gave you an insurmountable advantage.
He eventually quit playing FC and went back to video games. I guess it was easier to remember L-L-R-L-Up-R-Down-R-Up-Up than it was to think about what you're trying to accomplish and then figuring out a way to do that within the limitations of the game (and the ship that you are flying)
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Bolo_MK_XL
Commander


Joined: 16 Jan 2007
Posts: 794
Location: North Carolina

PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2009 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The best laid plans of DICE and men,

The most wonderful tactic puts you in the best position, where you can flee for your life when your most trusted ally (Dice) desert you ----
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ericphillips
Commander


Joined: 16 Apr 2009
Posts: 702
Location: Los Angeles, CA, USA, Sol, Gould Belt, Orion Arm, Milky Way Galaxy, Local Group, Universe Beta

PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2009 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scoutdad wrote:
Several other players and I who read this board frequently have been discussing the recent trend in the forum topics to ask for "the best tactic...". "the best ship...", or "the best speed...". It's often difficult to explain to a newcomer to the game that there is no single "best..."


I think we mean what are the base ways to handle situations, and then what are the exceptions. In the case of my question on baselines (which has become very very informative BTW), I kind of ignore "it depends on the situation" answers that say no more. The guys who gave an idea of a good baseline, then added exception (in this case, how to deal with plasmas with baselines).

You guys have a lot of knowledge to share, and I appreciate that.
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dave
Lieutenant JG


Joined: 26 Jun 2007
Posts: 82
Location: Canton, NY

PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2009 11:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baseline 16 seems popular and overall the most generally useful. But plotting speed 24 when you need mvement priority or need to move a long distance fast is great.

My daughter has now discovered deceleration, nothing like not moving when you are expected to to throw off your oponent's plans.
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Democratus
Lieutenant JG


Joined: 19 Aug 2008
Posts: 31
Location: Austin, TX

PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In our group, speed 24 plotting is a given. Sadly, this makes seeking plasma next to useless due to the possibility for a jump to 32 whenever the player wants.

Has anyone found a good way to make plasma effective in a game where anyone can move just as fast? Trapping in the corner isn't generally a viable option as the map we play on is 6x6 squares. Sad
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Kang
Fleet Captain


Joined: 23 Sep 2007
Posts: 1967
Location: Devon, UK

PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Use Gorn Anchors, and you can also use plasma bolts. Gorns can use the Carronade too.

Plasma is more flexible than first appears....
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Democratus
Lieutenant JG


Joined: 19 Aug 2008
Posts: 31
Location: Austin, TX

PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 11:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We use the bolts when we can - but the damage output is quite sad for a 3-turn arming cycle. The Anchor isn't really an option. If I could get that close to an enemy then I could conceivably trap them in a corner. But a speed 32 ship (which can also HET) is nigh impossible to step on. Sad

I miss the old restrictions on spending more than 31 hexes of movement energy at any one time.
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Bolo_MK_XL
Commander


Joined: 16 Jan 2007
Posts: 794
Location: North Carolina

PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 1:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
But a speed 32 ship (which can also HET) is nigh impossible to step on.


Yes, but they are limited in most everything else they could possibly do also --- If plasma fired late enough in the turn, how much energy is available to do 32 (or even HET), it really restricts possibilities for early in next turn also ---

Pros and cons to every decision ---
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mjwest
Commodore


Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Posts: 3496
Location: Dallas, Texas

PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 1:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You probably need to reduce yourself to the range 10 plasma bolt sabre dance (assuming we are talking about cruisers here). Take your range 10 50/50 shots with the heavy plasma and use the light plasma (i.e. Pl-F) to discourage overruns. Use your own speed to stay out of his overload range. Keep something in reserve to keep him at speed 24.

Doing this, of course, makes for a *long* game. But there is no reason to just present yourself to your opponent for a free shot of overloads with no response of your own.
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Kang
Fleet Captain


Joined: 23 Sep 2007
Posts: 1967
Location: Devon, UK

PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 8:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another point here is that if he's charging around doing speed 32 then not only does he not have much power do anything else with - as has already been stated - but also he will most likely have his rear shields facing you. You will most likely have more phasers in arc than he has, and it's your stronger forward shields vs. his weaker rear shields as well. Given that your phaser work costs him more power per shot than it does you, if he wants to reinforce at any rate, then his power will be leaking away faster than yours; that, or he will be losing shield boxes. Sooner or later he's going to have to turn around and face you.

On a floating map, which is what many plasma battles take place on, even a 50-hex floating map can get used up pretty quickly. See my new article here: http://www.starfleetgames.com/federation/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?p=25002 for more on this.

Anyway, the point here is that if he's not playing your game, then make the best of his game until such time as you can play your game again. Sure, it will take time, but if the outcome is favourable to you then it's worth the wait.
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