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Klingon D6?
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USS Enterprise
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PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2009 11:41 pm    Post subject: Klingon D6? Reply with quote

Where does the D6 belong, as a light Cruiser or Heavy Cruiser. One thing that annoyed me is as I see it it has no logical BPV opponent.
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Wolverin61
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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 12:26 am    Post subject: Re: Klingon D6? Reply with quote

USS Enterprise wrote:
Where does the D6 belong, as a light Cruiser or Heavy Cruiser. One thing that annoyed me is as I see it it has no logical BPV opponent.


Since a D7 is just an improved D6, I'd say they'd both be heavy cruisers. A D7 and two D6s makes a pretty formidable battle group imho.
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Scoutdad
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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 12:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the Master Ship Chart, it's classified as a Heavy Cruiser...

As for no opponents:
D6 = 130 points

Fed NCL = 125 points
Gorn HDD = 132 points
Hydran Tartar CM = 125 points
Kzinti MCC = 138 points
Kzinti CM = 122 points
Kzinti CMD = 134 points
Kzinti NCA = 140 points
Lyran CW = 128 points
Lyran CA = 139 points
Orion Pirate CA = 140 points
Orion Pirate OK6 = 136 points
Romulan King Eagle = 140 points
Romuln KR = 132 points
SparrowHawk CWE = 130 points
SparrowHawk CW = 135 points
Seltorian CL = 127 points
Tholian CA = 134 points
Tholian NCL = 136 points
Tholian CW = 132 points
Tholian CW(P) = 132 points
WYN CWL = 134 points
WYN CW = 126 points

That's 22 units if you limit the point value to +/- 10 points.
Go to +/- 15 points and that number increases to 34
Go from +/- 20 points and the number approachs 50 opponents.

I'd hardly call that no opponents.
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Scoutdad
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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 12:36 am    Post subject: Re: Klingon D6? Reply with quote

Wolverin61 wrote:
Since a D7 is just an improved D6, I'd say they'd both be heavy cruisers. A D7 and two D6s makes a pretty formidable battle group imho.

And at 398 points, it fits into many catagories, quite nicely.
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djdood
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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 1:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The D6 is just one of those things that makes the game less cookie-cutter (and it comes directly from the source blueprints). The Klingons never built a "proper" light cruiser (or a destroyer, for that matter). It's just one of those odd things that makes them, well... them.

The D6 was built as a top-of-the-line Heavy Cruiser, but was surpassed by the similar but improved D7. "Klingons never throw away a weapon" and kept the D6's in service (much like the Feds did with the ancient CL's) and used the D6's as a defacto "light cruiser" (or alternate "not quite so heavy" cruiser) and even kept one production line for D6's going well into the General War.
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USS Enterprise
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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 2:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I only have KB, and know little about other ships.

Forgot to mention that. When the D6 first came out though, it had no opponents.

I don't like where it puts them.

Maybe tweaking the Fed CL rto have 4 Photons would evenize that battle.
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djdood
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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 5:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The D6's natural opponent was the "Middle Years" Fed CA.
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terryoc
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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 7:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

D6 is an odd duck. By the time of the General War, which is the "main era" of Federation Commander, it was obsolete but the Klingons built many of them for conversions to specialty units not seen in Fed Comm. Like the D6S scout, D6D drone bombardment cruiser, D6P gunboat tender, D6V carrier, D6J penal cruiser, and probably other variants I'm ignorant of. Overall a very successful hull.

The D5 and D5W ships are really good for duels, I like the matchup of D5W vs Federation CA. They're in Klingon Attack IIRC, and there's probably revised versions in Communique, which you can download for free from the Commander's Circle and print out.
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Mike
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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

USS Ent: The "tweaked" old CL you mentioned is actually the original Fed CA (known as the oCA). It is in Briefing #2 and would probably kick a D6 all over the map.
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USS Enterprise
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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 1:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, how much BPV Roughly would 2 Photons give it? THe energy would be the same, so it might be too hard to use them anyways. The D6 is almost as powerful as a D7, and certainly too strong to fight a CL. The "Tweaked," CL, would give it a better battle. Remember, the D6 has 4 Disrupters.

Also, what is the D5W
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Steve Cole
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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

D6A: stasis variant, not used much
D6B: better shields on a standard D6
D6C: command variant, not used after the D7
D6D: drone bombardment variant
D6E: survey cruiser
D6F: anti-fighter escort ship, only one
D6G: commando ship
D6H: There isn't one, but it could be a cargo variant
D6I: internal security flagship
D6J: penal cruiser
D6K: better phasers on a standard D6
D6L: In theory, a D6C with improved phasers
D6M: mauler
D6N: diplomatic ship, only one, early part of middle years
D6O: not one
D6P: gunboat tender
D6Q: not one
D6R: theoretically could be some kind of repair ship
D6S: scout
D6T: dunno, maybe some kind of transport
D6U: interdiction carrier
D6V: carrier
D6W: dunno, maybe a general war improvement of some kind
D6X: just don't go there.
D6Y: weapons experimentation ship
D6Z: zoological research ship
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djdood
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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

USS E -

The D5W is a new heavy cruiser (NCA), built from the D-5 War Cruiser. The ship card is in Klingon Attack.

You can answer questions like that (and compare point values, etc.) by perusing the Master Ship Chart in the Commander's Circle.

Point Value per-box ("the formula") is something that is not going to be disclosed (and gets tweaked by playtesting anyways). A pair of photons is worth more on a ship that has the power to use them than it would be on a ship that doesn't (like the oCL).

There isn't a "tweaked CL" with 4 photons in FedCom. It just doesn't have the power to use them. As noted above, more "era-appropriate" match-ups for the D-6 (both with 4 photons) are the Middle Years CA (in Briefing #2 as well as Communique #41) and the oCA (also in Briefing #2, as well as Captains Log #38 ).
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USS Enterprise
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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wasn't saying there was, but that it was a possibility, you could use rolling thunder to good effect with that ship.

Adding maybe 2 Drone racks instead is possible, though that passes the CA.

Really, in KB there's no opponent for the D6 or CL. Maybe the CL and D6 should have both been given 3 Torpedoes each.
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Scoutdad
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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

edited to prevent moderator sanctions... Wink
USS Enterprise wrote:
Really, in KB there's no opponent for the D6 or CL.

Maybe you're not flying thm correctly.

I've often taken a D6 against a Federation Command Cruiser when playing a newcomer... or taken a Federation CL against a D7 under the same circumstances.
Also, one of the easiest and best balance mechanisms is to replace any or all D7s in a scenario with D6s. This puts the Klingon at a bit of a disadvantage and works great when they are the most experienced player.

If you're only playing duels,and can't find an exactly equal match - then you're missing out on what is potentially the best part of the game: Scenarios and Missions.
Sure, anyone can throw two opposing ships on the map and fight them to the death - but the Captain that tried that would be summarily discharged (and shot - those are very expensive ships)
Try performing a rescue of standed scientists while being shot at by an enemy vessel...
Try to study and obtain data on a strange, alien life form w/o having your ship destroyed in the process...
Protect a convoy scattered all across the map from marauding pirates with too few escorts and too many targets of opportunity...

Don't think of the Klingon D6 or the Federation CL as unwanted and unloved, step-children - think of them as opportunities to earn bragging rights amongst your local gaming group.
"Who cares if you beat the Space Dragon with a Federation Command Cruiser... I did it with a D6!" Cool
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djdood
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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

USS Enterprise wrote:
Maybe the CL and D6 should have both been given 3 Torpedoes each.


Way too different than they way they are in the other games in the SFU.

Just like the current real-world navies, there isn't always a cookie-cutter perfect match on either sides of a fight. The Klingons like big cruisers (a lot) and like frigates (a lot). They don't seem to care much for things in-between.
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