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FOUR QUESTIONS FOR OUR CUSTOMERS
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markgeorgetwo
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 2:59 am    Post subject: I have a question Reply with quote

I agree about the combined fc rulebook this i think would make a very good product also i think that a scenario book would also be a Cool thing and also a map of the fed commander universe the ones in the rule books are too small and with a large map it would be easy to do campaigns in small hex and also to plan the scenarios. has for me i think also more play sheets are a good idea because i think this game is better than sfb what i started with. Very Happy
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Nerroth
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 5:07 am    Post subject: Re: FOUR QUESTIONS FOR OUR CUSTOMERS Reply with quote

Steve Cole wrote:


1. What are we NOT doing that we SHOULD be doing?

2. What ARE we doing that we should do DIFFERENTLY?

3. What ARE we doing that we should NO be doing?

4. What new concept or idea should ADB investigate to improve its operations?



1. From my own perspective, there are lots of gamers/Trek fans/sci-fi enthusiasts who never notice the unique races and histories in the SFU - mostly because they are not exposed to them.

Take Omega - the perfect hook to introduce new players is to highlight the FRA, and use it as a springboard for exploring a whole new region of the galaxy (for those familiar with the concept of ST:Voyager, but less than impressed with its execution, this is not a million parsecs from that idea.) If a lot of fans need the tv races to get them involved, there's a ready-made solution on offer - although personally I'd like to see the new regions explored by gamers and sci-fi fans on their own merits, not just because of the familiar faces showing up in the area...

I know that I've said this kind of thing before, but it's worth repeating.

2. While there have been a few attempts to do this sort of thing before, there could be a lot more done to promote cross-pollination between games - the old efforts to try and make SFB and PD work together were a bit clunky, but Fed Commander is a far more amenable system to try such a setup. (If Star Fleet Assault comes out soon, it would be good with this, too.)

Even in SFB, the new Early ISC featured in Module Y2 is a great candidate for twinning with role-play efforts - a chance to show five unique races overcome decades of war and distrust to forge a new alliance, learn to work together as equals, and explore a myriad of new worlds.

3. Hard to say - there isn't much that springs to mind (except perhaps for the focus on General War-era Alpha - I understand it's driven by the fanbase but I hope it doesn't squash the others).

4. Going back to the idea of tying together the various game systems, while going somewhere that ADB has not covered in print thus far, I'd suggest a book similar in design and scope to the Forge World book Imperial Armour 3: The Taros Campaign:



I've gone into more detail in a thread back on the legacy site, if you aren't familiar with IA3.


Gary
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

REPLIES
(a) Priorities. To me, FC almost gets squeezed on its own home page by other related products (SFBF, PD).

SVC: We don't think of FC as the home page for FC but another home page for the entire universe.

(b) Forum. You've got about 200 registered members but fewer than half have ever posted.

SVC: Fairly common for every forum on internet.

(c) Product List. I find it a tad odd that I have to click on a link to "tell me more" about any of these; I sort of expect that a product list is going to tell me already.

SVC: That would make the product list so long that nobody would ever read their way to the bottom of it.

(d) FAQs. The paragraph spacing on the FAQs page is inconsistent, and fixing it would make the page look better.

SVC: I don't see any spacing problems on my computer, but computers, systems, and software ARE different. I added this to Matt's list of things to do.

(e) Store. The store seems to work pretty well, though I think I've yet to put an order through. The individual products are a bit deeply "nested" for my taste (e.g., I have to go to FC, then Starter Sets, then 4001 to see Klingon Border's product description), but that may just be me.

SVC: I will pass this comment on to the store managers.

(f) Commander's Circle. I'm sure there's a good reason for this, but I'm not sure why I have to go offsite for CC.

SVC: Because it was on the other site for months before this site existed, and we haven't moved it yet. The guy who built the CC died without telling us how he did it and we're having a dickens of a time moving it.

(g) Blog. Maybe a more prominent link for the blog is needed. I finally had to ask someone where it was. That could just be me.

SVC: Well, the blog link was about as prominent as it could get, but it's now 1/3 the size and three times as easy to see.

(h) First Missions. Any reason not to promote First Missions on this site? If there's a link here, I haven't come across it.

SVC: There is. It's on the site map, and on the FC pages.

(2) Two sites? Is dividing the FC discussion between this and the legacy site a good idea? Seems like it should all be in one place. Perhaps that's the plan?

SVC: Not the plan. The old site can't be eliminated (thousands of existing customers know it like the back oftheir hands) and the new site can't do what the old site does or it won't be able to do what it does (talk to new players who do not already know everything).

(3) Minis. I agree with terryoc's suggestion of a broader marketing push for the minis apart from the game. Lots of people pick up Star Wars minis who have no intention of playing the minis game.

SVC: I have passed this comment on to others.

(4) SFB (FC) Online. An online presence is a good idea, especially as, right now, this is a fairly new game and one that's complex enough to sometimes make it hard to find face-to-face opponents. The demo account is a good way to get people to check things out. Still ...

SVC: I have never been there and know nothing about it. I will pass on your comments to the guys who run it.

(5) Rules. The rules work. The specific rule I'm looking for is pretty easy to find. The rules are indexed, which is essential. A few things to consider, though.

(a) Graphics/layout. it probably wouldn't hurt to have more graphical elements.

SVC: If we ever do a "revision 5" rulebook (and I didn't say we would) we can consider some of this.

(b) Example of play. I Know this is free online, but I think having an example of play in the rulebook itself might help people see how the rules flow together (and get them excited about playing).

SVC: Same as above.

(6) Plastic. More and more games are replacing cardboard bits with plastic ones. I know FC/SFB have a robust pewter minis line, but not everyone wants to buy, assemble, and paint them. There are probably all kinds of reasons not to have plastic bits, but plastic ones would have a bit more mass appeal.

SVC: Maybe they would, maybe they would not. A year ago, we asked two manufacturers to give us quotes. It was $50,000 up front to get the first production run of six (total) ships. Seems a bit unlikely to happen. This is why only two or three companies do them.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 9:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Assorted other replies
=====
A more modern layout style, perhaps with color illustrations or game examples making use of photos showcasing some of the lovely painted minis, would go a long way to mitigating the scariness of the rules for a lot of people and could make the game more accessible and friendly to the non-hardcore.
- - -
SVC: Color printing is ridiculously expensive and not really practical. I have my doubts that there is anything you could do to make a 224-page BASIC rulebook "more accessible and friendly to the non-hardcore"
========
Would it be possible to create/ship smaller (less expensive) starter sets? If there were a box that was $30 rather than $60, and included the rulebook, some counters a couple of map panels, and a half dozen ship cards, it could draw people in.
- - -
SVC: We are actually considering this. You can't really play the game with a couple of panels, but a cardstock map like in SFB could be provided for the price of two hard panels.
========
Finally, I am not sure what the advertising budget is, but the game needs some extra pimpage. I'm a pretty devoted gamer, and I had no idea FC even existed until someone mentioned it offhandedly in a thread on BGG where I was requesting recommendations for wargames to play. As soon as I knew it existed, I wanted to buy it! Some more web/store visibility would go a long way...store tournaments with prize support including starters or expansions, contests on BGG giving away the occasional set, etc. could all help.
- - - - -
SVC: Not sure what we could do we aren't doing. We have bought banners on a lot of sites. We sent a note to BGG about doing a giveaway and I think we're still waiting for answers, or a staff meeting, or something. Not sure who dropped that one but may be worth finding. We do have store tournaments with prize supports now.
=========
A) It would be very nice if you listed just what ships/monsters the "sixteen full color double-sided laminated ship cards" included in ... [each product actually are.]
- - - - -
SVC: I think I can make that happen.
=========
B)While the two scales might be somewhat self-evident to people with experience playing SFB, I do think a page with comparison, both visual and text would go a long way to help one understand why there are two methods of play in a "simplified" game.
- - - - -
SVC: I think I can make that happen.
=========
C) A couple of shots of games in progress with both counters and/or minatures could also go a long way to even if only of the size of the used with the contents.
- - - - -
SVC: I think I can make that happen.
=========
D) The php method used opening downloads in the Commander's Circle creates errors in my work's firewall and my own monitored internet.
- - - - -
SVC: Let me see if I can show you how that reads to me.
- - - - -
D) The Quatloo Plubodnik used opening downloads in the Commander's Circle creates errors in my Zinglebark.
- - - - -
SVC: Seriously, I have no clue what your D item means. I'm too old to understand internet. But if you will email that to Graphics@StarFleetGames.com and ask Matt Cooper about it, maybe he can track it down.
===============

=========
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 9:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually, the two-scales thing is the thing that almost completely baffles SFB players.
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mahatmamanic
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great responses Smile I see it's true that you guys listen to people!

[q]SVC: Color printing is ridiculously expensive and not really practical. I have my doubts that there is anything you could do to make a 224-page BASIC rulebook "more accessible and friendly to the non-hardcore" [/q]

Fair enough that color printing is too expensive...but 224 pages? 0_o I am at work, so I don't have the FC book in front of me right now, but it sure didn't seem that long when I was reading it...is there another book I should have?

On another note, regarding the smaller starter sets...I realized after I posted that folding paper or cardstock would make a lot more sense than only a couple of the high quality boards. I am thrilled that you are considering it, as it would be much easier to hook local gamers (especially the younger crowd) if they could drop $30 for say a Cruiser + Destroyer + Frigate from two different races + rules + some counters + lower quality board.
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djdood
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 1:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Piling onto mahatmamanic's comments (about SVC's replies) -

- FC:First Missions -
I'm assuming the intention with FC:First Missions is not "Burrow down in our legacy site and find it. Since we're giving this away for free, we don't want *all* our potential customers to download this and then not buy the real game".

If First Missions is indeed supposed to be "out there", it really should get a bug/button on the front page of FC.com ("Try FC For FREE!"). It's the "demo version" trying to hook people into the game. Right now, it's several clicks (and a whole different website with a different "look") away. Snag those site-browsers!

- Cheaper Starter Set -
Tying something like this into First Missions could make sense, especially if First Missions advertises the heck out of it internally
i.e. "Enjoying the game? Wouldn't it be even more fun with miniature starships?
For only $X.XX, you can get fine metal miniatures of the two ships you are commanding right now and a full-size map to fly them on. OR, you can move up to the full Federation Commander:KA or RA gamesets for vastly bigger adventures".

A small box-set, that could fit in a small-format box (maybe even the VHS tape boxes SJG was using for the later ORGE/GEV releases).
Fed CA mini
Klingon D7 mini
Printed paint-guide for both (Maybe color for a one-sheet like this? That, or on the back cover)
Cross-marketing flyers for the game(s)
(also, *if* the price point made sense)
Small sheet of counters (drones, shuttles) re-sourced from another product (or just good "cut-out your own" on a 8 1/2 x 11),
Un-pretty, but usable, printed-paper (not cardstock) map, like in the old SFB Cadet Module.

Nothing not in First Missions.

This box could also be the "market it to the Trekkers" product (since the two most recognizable minis are there and it can point them to where to download the rules - if they are so inclined). The only thing the Trekkers end up with that they don't want that seems like it drove any price (to them) is a hex-map.

- Places to put banner ads that might gain new customers -
I'm finding myself checking trekmovie.com pretty much daily now, since they are covering the remastered "Classic Trek" episodes in-depth, in addition to the new prequel movie. They get a lot of exclusive images, etc. from CBS Digital so they must get a lot of traffic, but not so much that their ad fees would be out of range (or, maybe they are - since I don't buy ad space on websites). I do know that site has a lot of "Classic Trek" appreciating people visiting it who would be prime targets for FC.

- Commander's Circle download issues -

Real issue that has been brought up before. I've been working around it so long I don't even pay attention anymore.

Hopefully the content and the access-list can be moved to the new site by Matt.


Last edited by djdood on Wed Feb 21, 2007 1:54 am; edited 1 time in total
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guentherm
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 1:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steve Cole wrote:

=========
D) The php method used opening downloads in the Commander's Circle creates errors in my work's firewall and my own monitored internet.
- - - - -
SVC: Let me see if I can show you how that reads to me.
- - - - -
D) The Quatloo Plubodnik used opening downloads in the Commander's Circle creates errors in my Zinglebark.
- - - - -
SVC: Seriously, I have no clue what your D item means. I'm too old to understand internet. But if you will email that to Graphics@StarFleetGames.com and ask Matt Cooper about it, maybe he can track it down.
===============


I think we need more replies on answers from Steve exactly like that...

ROFL! Shocked Laughing Razz
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

REPLIES
======
Fair enough that color printing is too expensive...but 224 pages? 0_o I am at work, so I don't have the FC book in front of me right now, but it sure didn't seem that long when I was reading it...is there another book I should have?
- - - - -
SVC: You confused two different questions. 224 pages is the basic SFB rulebook (part of a 2400 page rule-ship-scenario set). The Original question suggested that SFB would be less intimidating with a color rulebook.
=======
starter sets...I am thrilled that you are considering it, as it would be much easier to hook local gamers (especially the younger crowd) if they could drop $30 for say a Cruiser + Destroyer + Frigate from two different races + rules + some counters + lower quality board.
- - - - -
SVC: Lessons from game production 101. If you want to use existing components, then it's not going to be CA+DD+FF since that would leave a lot of unused pieces. To do that, you'd have to undertake entirely new production, a whole new countersheet that would be cut up into four or six pieces with the relevant counters, and that's not a deal breaker. The ship cards thing is not a problem since we use them in various products in various combinations, and reprint them individually.
======
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

REPLIES
=======
- FC:First Missions -
I'm assuming the intention with FC:First Missions is not "Burrow down in our legacy site and find it. Since we're giving this away for free, we don't want *all* our potential customers to download this and then not buy the real game".
- - - - -
SVC: We tell people about it all we can.
==========
If First Missions is indeed supposed to be "out there", it really should get a bug/button on the front page of FC.com ("Try FC For FREE!"). It's the "demo version" trying to hook people into the game. Right now, it's several clicks (and a whole different website with a different "look") away. Snag those site-browsers!
- - - - -
SVC: If you click on the middle FC link, the one about the game, the free download it on that page. I cannot really imagine people wanting a free download when they know nothing about the game, but we can add a link to the front page, sure.
==========
- Cheaper Starter Set -
Tying something like this into First Missions could make sense, especially if First Missions advertises the heck out of it internally
i.e. "Enjoying the game? Wouldn't it be even more fun with miniature starships?
For only $X.XX, you can get fine metal miniatures of the two ships you are commanding right now and a full-size map to fly them on. OR, you can move up to the full Federation Commander:KA or RA gamesets for vastly bigger adventures".
- - - - -
SVC: An interesting idea.
==========
A small box-set, that could fit in a small-format box (maybe even the VHS tape boxes SJG was using for the later ORGE/GEV releases).
- - - - -
SVC: They got that idea from us. We've been using video boxes for years.
=========
Fed CA mini
Klingon D7 mini
Printed paint-guide for both (Maybe color for a one-sheet like this? That, or on the back cover)
Cross-marketing flyers for the game(s)
(also, *if* the price point made sense)
Small sheet of counters (drones, shuttles) re-sourced from another product (or just good "cut-out your own" on a 8 1/2 x 11),
Un-pretty, but usable, printed-paper (not cardstock) map, like in the old SFB Cadet Module.
Nothing not in First Missions.
- - - - -
SVC: An interesting thought.
==========
This box could also be the "market it to the Trekkers" product (since the two most recognizable minis are there and it can point them to where to download the rules - if they are so inclined). The only thing the Trekkers end up with that they don't want that seems like it drove any price (to them) is a hex-map.
- - - - -
SVC: I am not grasing the hex map point. Can you elaborate?
==========
- Places to put banner ads that might gain new customers -
I'm finding myself checking trekmovie.com pretty much daily now, since they are covering the remastered "Classic Trek" episodes in-depth, in addition to the new prequel movie. They get a lot of exclusive images, etc. from CBS Digital so they must get a lot of traffic, but not so much that their ad fees would be out of range (or, maybe they are - since I don't buy ad space on websites). I do know that site has a lot of "Classic Trek" appreciating people visiting it who would be prime targets for FC.
- - - - -
SVC: I have serious doubt that Paramount would allow us to advertise there, but I'll have Vanessa ask.
==========
- Commander's Circle download issues -
Real issue that has been brought up before. I've been working around it so long I don't even pay attention anymore.
Hopefully the content and the access-list can be moved to the new site by Matt.
- - - - -
SVC: As noted, I don't understand at all what this issue is, but Email Matt since I pay him to understand the internet for me. As for moving CC to the new site (or duplicating it here) that's a nut we haven't cracked. It's not a matter of not wanting to, or not having time, or it not reaching the top of the to-do list. It's a matter of Matt can't figure out how the original CC was built, and the guy who built it to the secret to his grave. Literally. Right now, the only real way to move forward is to build an entirely new ComCirc that works the same but uses different systems, and that's obviously far more work that just moving what is on the old site, and everybody would have to re-register.
==========
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Nerroth
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One thing about the 'starter set' idea:

Perhaps the newer Command Cruiser mini (with the improved saucer) should be added instead.


And perhaps instead of just giving a Ship Card for a Klingon D7, perhaps one for a Romulan K7R could also be added?

That way all three of the major tv factions would be featured - and the starter set would equally lead into buying either Klingon Border or Romulan Border.


Gary
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gary Nerroth: makes sense, although I'm not sure that the starter set would include minis or not. Might have to have two starter sets, one with large map and minis (and a higher price) and one with small map and half inch counters.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What if the starter set came with a small-scale map (if you couldn't make it double-sided, that is) and 1/2" counters, and a set of the miniature turn gauges for promoting the use of a hexless board?

Gamers used to the likes of Battlefleet Gothic and Babylon 5: A Call to Arms would be used to going hexless (and a lot of those gamers rely on minis to play their games anyway, due to either preference or necessity) so promoting the tabletop rules might be an option.

(There's a company called Gale Force Nine who produce just such gauges for games such as ACTA, maybe they might be interested in producing similar ones for FC?)


And did you see the suggestion for an 'Imperial Armour'-style book earlier in the thread, or over at the legacy site?


Gary
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gary: What if the starter set came with a small-scale map (if you couldn't make it double-sided, that is) and 1/2" counters, and a set of the miniature turn gauges for promoting the use of a hexless board?
- - -
SVC: Let me figure some stuff out.
===
Gamers used to the likes of Battlefleet Gothic and Babylon 5: A Call to Arms would be used to going hexless (and a lot of those gamers rely on minis to play their games anyway, due to either preference or necessity) so promoting the tabletop rules might be an option.
- - -
SVC: The problem there being that if the starter pack didn't have minis, it would not work.
===
(There's a company called Gale Force Nine who produce just such gauges for games such as ACTA, maybe they might be interested in producing similar ones for FC?)
- - -
SVC: Produces them on what, how? Unless it's some exotic material, why could not we do them ourselves?
===
And did you see the suggestion for an 'Imperial Armour'-style book earlier in the thread, or over at the legacy site?
- - -
SVC: Yes, and like many similar suggestions, I still cannot figure out what you're wanting. You know all about Imperial Armor so you leave out half or more of the necessary info and it still makes sense to you, but makes no sense to me. Try emailing me a better description.
===
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SVC: Let me figure some stuff out.

SVC: The problem there being that if the starter pack didn't have minis, it would not work.

===

That idea was assuming you decided to put the starter minis in the box.

===

(There's a company called Gale Force Nine who produce just such gauges for games such as ACTA, maybe they might be interested in producing similar ones for FC?)
- - -
SVC: Produces them on what, how? Unless it's some exotic material, why could not we do them ourselves?

===

According to the page for this gauge:



Quote:
These beautiful templates are made of a durable see-thru "fluorescent blue" colored acrylic which is laser cut and etched with all the markings required to play the Babylon 5 - A Call to Arms in style.


===

And did you see the suggestion for an 'Imperial Armour'-style book earlier in the thread, or over at the legacy site?
- - -
SVC: Yes, and like many similar suggestions, I still cannot figure out what you're wanting. You know all about Imperial Armor so you leave out half or more of the necessary info and it still makes sense to you, but makes no sense to me. Try emailing me a better description.

===

I'll see what I can do.


Gary
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