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ISC Echelon Formation

 
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malleman
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Joined: 12 Jan 2008
Posts: 308
Location: Lafayette, LA

PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 3:11 am    Post subject: ISC Echelon Formation Reply with quote

Does anyone know the maximum number of ships allowed in an ISC echelon? I know that a normal echelon consist of 10 or 11 ships. It seems as though I remember reading that there is a limit of 13 ships total, but I cannot find the reference. Am I correct, or just going crazy?

1st Echelon 5-6 smaller ships usually frigates and destroyers
2nd Echelon 3-4 heavier ships
3rd Echelon usually 1 large ship
4th Echelon carriers, scouts, protected ships

Thanks
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Dal Downing
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Joined: 06 May 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 3:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Malleman,

You would have to dig throught the S8 Section to build that fleet/eschelon and really Scoutdad could give a better count based off of a Battleline in F&E.

But the number 13 you are getting is assuming a Command Limit 10 Ship is the Core. (BB DN or CC)

You would shoehorn in 6 Size class 4 ships in for 5 slots (FF DD DW or in other words the Gunline.)

And you would get 1 free scout you could shove in there.

I don't think the ISC gets to use the Drone Bombardment section (3 more ships) but maybe with the PPD they should. Thats upto the F&E Staff.
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mjwest
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 4:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Realize that in Federation Commander, the rules are a little more freeform.

That said, ISC ships have command limits just like any other ship. So, a DN has a command limit of 10, a CC has 9, a CA has 8, a CL and CS has 6, and so on. This is the number of other ships it can command. (So, a CC has a command limit of 9, so it could have a fleet of itself and 9 other ships, for a total of 10.) Then, it could take one additional scout. (In the CC example, that would be the CC, 9 other ships, plus a scout, for a grand total of 11.) Finally, there were some other special rules (special admiral rule?) I don't even know or remember to add one more. (So, with a DN lead force, that would a DN, 10 other ships, a scout, and one extra for reasons unknown. That gives a complete maximum of 13 ships in a fleet.)

To summarize, the ISC fleet sizes were limited by the exact same command limits other empires' fleets were limited by. The biggest possible fleet was 13 ships, which require a BB or DN (or SCS or CVA) to lead it.

In Federation Commander, these rules are not stated or enforced. If you want to play a game with a 20 ship fleet, go for it. These limits still exist in the background, so if you want a scenario to get published or something like that, you will probably need to keep it in mind. But for actual use, go have fun.

Note also, however, that this is completely separate from the limits on the number of PPD ships. In SFB, this was an absolute limit on the number of actual PPD weapons in the fleet. In Federation Commander, this will likely be a limit on the number of PPD armed ships in the fleet. Expect something on the order of 1/3 or so. I do expect that such a limit will be introduced when the ISC are official published in War & Peace.
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Scoutdad
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 6:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Matt:
The previous answers are correct (in as far as S8, Command Ratings, and F&E basttlelines go).
An ISC DN has a command rating of 10, meaning as Mike said; it can commnd 10 ships in addition to itself.
This yields an 11 ship fleet...
Now, throw in the free scout and you have 12 ships...
Here's where it gets tricky...
you can field a six ship battlegroup for 5 command slots, if the ships follow the battlegroup eligble unit rules...
This makes your fleet 13 ships...
Now, in F&E you can have an Admiral on the flagship which allows an additional command slot...
Now you're at 14 ships.
In addition, you have the option to spend a command point to add another ship, or a Marine Major Genral will allow to you add an additional commando ship...
This gives you a fleet of 15 ships.
In F&E - that's the largest fleet you can have.
In SFB, using S8 - I think you'd still be limited to 12 ships (DN, + 10 command slots, plus a free scout)
In Federation Commander, there are no limits... so you could theoretically have as many ships as you have points for.
So the answer is:

15, or 12, or unlimited.

I hope that clears it up! Confused
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SWO_Daddy
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Joined: 14 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is also the PPD limit to consider in the ISC case. Of course, if you go with the FC "unlimited" approach, I'm not sure the PPD count is the biggest of your worries.
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malleman
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 4:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MJ, do you think the PPD limit will go by ship, instead of per weapon?
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mjwest
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 5:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

malleman wrote:
MJ, do you think the PPD limit will go by ship, instead of per weapon?

I hope so. Counting actual PPD weapons just seems so fiddly. Counting ships just seems more appropriate for Federation Commander.

Note that I haven't even really brought this up with Steve, so it could be DOA. But a ship limit (probably 1/3) is what I will ask for.
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