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Klingons, the Vulcan Logic of the Saber Dance
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USS Enterprise
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Joined: 27 Feb 2009
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Location: Vulcan

PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2009 12:46 am    Post subject: Klingons, the Vulcan Logic of the Saber Dance Reply with quote

This is a rather interesting thing that I thought of when I played this game awhile back when I was a 450 Point Squadron of Romulans, while he was a 450 Point squadron of Klingons.

During the game, I tried to explain to him the Saber Dance, but he made this comment, "But that's not in the spirit of the Klingons. In the Show and Movies they are battlethirsty and charge into battle," (Indirect quote from him.)

Since I learned of it, I thought of Saber Dancing as the masterful way to handle the Klingons but Logically he is right, It is uncharacteristic of the Klingons. Now, I do think that logically, the strategy is the best way to play the Klinks, but in the show, a Klingon wouldn't do that, they'd be charging to close range with overloads, while the Feds would be more strategic, coming up with efficient ways to handle things. In the game, they are reversed.

I would really like to be disproved in this regard. I'd like to logically know when a Klingon would be firing Disruptors across 150,000 Kilometers of empty space and attempting to keep a running battle.

Please help me to logically sort this out.
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Nerroth
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2009 12:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Klingons of the movies and the various later TV series are not the same as those shown in the Original Series.


The Franchise came up with the Augment virus thing to explain the difference between "HemQuch" (ridged Klingons) and "QuchHa" (non-ridged Klingons - literally "the unhappy ones").

However, the Star Fleet Universe considers there to be only one set of Klingons - the ones from TOS (who don't speak Mark Okrand's take on Klingonese).


But then, the Franchise Klingon Empire doesn't have any Dunkars, Cromargs, Slirdarians, Vudar or any of the other SFU-native subject races.
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USS Enterprise
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2009 1:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Were the old klinks of TOS Snipers like that though.

I wouldn't call the Saber Dance Cowardly, (And It's a great tactic by the way) but I wouldn't think it's something the Klinks would do.
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djdood
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2009 1:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Klinks on the old show were exactly snipers.

Go back and watch Elaan of Troyus and note the tactics used by the Klingon ship.
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USS Enterprise
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2009 1:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Will do.
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USS Enterprise
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2009 2:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

After watching that episode, I'd say I agree with the general analysis here.
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Mike
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2009 2:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The 'Dood" is right. The Klingons of TOS were crafty and were always looking for ways to hurt the Feds without risking too much themselves. They "bobbed about out there" quite a bit...
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RIS_Mace
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2009 3:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike wrote:
The 'Dood" is right. The Klingons of TOS were crafty and were always looking for ways to hurt the Feds without risking too much themselves. They "bobbed about out there" quite a bit...


Too bad the Klingon captain got a little too foolish in that episode. Just for kicks, I had to look up the script for the show, and apparently the Klingon ship got to within 20,000 km on his final pass (!).

I love watching the episodes and then finding connections to the tactics in FC/SFB. After recently watching Journey to Babel for the first time in a while, I can definitely see how the Orions in that episode inspired those in SFU -- engine doubling, stealthy and hard-to-hit, and a small ship with phaser-only option mounts.
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MajerBlundor
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2009 3:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doesn't the SFU timeline mention something about Klingons being descended from something like a "horse people"? I've imagined them as coming from something like Cossacks or Parthians in which case the Sabre dance is perfectly understandable!
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Requete
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2009 5:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MajerBlundor wrote:
Doesn't the SFU timeline mention something about Klingons being descended from something like a "horse people"? I've imagined them as coming from something like Cossacks or Parthians in which case the Sabre dance is perfectly understandable!


You know, I think you're on to something. Flying Feds against Klin really does seem like Cataphracts/Knights against Parthians. If you get up to them, you hit like a ton of bricks. If you don't, they shoot you to pieces.
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rockyr
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2009 1:53 pm    Post subject: Klingon Parthians? Reply with quote

But Parthians had their own cataphracts, too, as well as their horse archers.

The Klingons are dangerous at any range. Their opponents are the ones with preferrred ranged.

In the series, they were very sneak, and agressive too. The two are not necessarily incompatible.

No warrior, of any race, would live long just by charging in headlong against anyone.

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Duckdodgers
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2009 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If someone is going to use a Trek episode or movie as an example they are in for some confusing inconsistencies.
The latter series Klingons are a 'brave warrior race ready to charge into honorable combat'...using a cloaking device?

FedCom Kilingons are a pragmatic people that do what works. The ships are designed to do the elegant saber dance because, in reality, a warrior race would hone combat into an elegant art form.
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Dal Downing
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2009 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Duckdodgers wrote:
If someone is going to use a Trek episode or movie as an example they are in for some confusing inconsistencies.
The latter series Klingons are a 'brave warrior race ready to charge into honorable combat'...using a cloaking device?

FedCom Kilingons are a pragmatic people that do what works. The ships are designed to do the elegant saber dance because, in reality, a warrior race would hone combat into an elegant art form.


Actually the point is that the SFU Klingon act just like the Source material shows which is TOS and parts of TAS shows they do. This whole reimagining of the Klingons into some sorta Samurai Warrior is outside of ADB license so we constantly have people say well your Klingons are wrong...

Klingon ships and tactics in the SFU are modeled on what was out there back when SVC was designing the game. Before there was such as thing as TMP or TNG or any thing else. They made a fairly consistent well grounded game based on watching a TV show and the at the time "canonized" Franz Joseph's Technical Manual and a few other Source books.
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Requete
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 1:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Duckdodgers wrote:

FedCom Kilingons are a pragmatic people that do what works.


Ah, except for their stubborn adherence to dialectical materialism. Very Happy
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Dan Ibekwe
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 12:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The canon races in SFB/FC fit TOS very well indeed.

But on the other hand, I've always wished that the Kzinti were a bit more 'scream and leap' as they were in Larry Niven's books. Their tactics in the game always seemed a bit cerebral for full-on tooth-and-claw predators.

Perhaps I'll try them armed with Fusion Beams rather than Disruptors.
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