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JoMc67
Lieutenant JG


Joined: 29 Jul 2009
Posts: 27

PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 4:05 am    Post subject: New FC Member Reply with quote

Hello FC Community,
New member, Played SFB back in the 80s before getting out of it, and now re-newing my interest with FC ( ordered FC Klingon Border, and will get it next week ). I just hope FC doesnt become SFB, or I will have to leave the game system for good.

Can the Damage: Code Red cards also be used in FC ?
Since ADB does not sell them anymore ( or maybe was it TFG ) can someone share me a copy, Document, or PDF of the Rules and Cards.
This way I can use Poker cards with one side showing the damage.

Any help would be great.
Thanx
Joe
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djdood
Fleet Captain


Joined: 01 Feb 2007
Posts: 2922
Location: Seattle, WA

PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 4:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Welcome to the board.

SVC (the Game's Overworked Designer) is pretty adamant that FedCom will never become SFB. Things are being added, but only in a way that maintains the faster-cleaner approach. Crunch-fans will always have SFB.

FedCom uses a different damage system than SFB, so no, your BD:Code Red cards would not be usable with it (without a bunch of "house rules"). The damage-table in FedCom uses a different method, which gives your ten points of damage, on one dice roll.

Posting or sending files of the old BD:CR cards would be a no-no. They may be out of print, but they are still under copyright.
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JoMc67
Lieutenant JG


Joined: 29 Jul 2009
Posts: 27

PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DJ, Thanx for the info.

I have recently joined a group in Norhern, Va who use to play SFB years ago, and now only play FC at Fleet Scale. The group also plays the 'Star Trek Combat Simulator' from Fasa, but even thou they like the combat better in Fasa the rules are not complete enough to include things like Transporters and Tractors , etc.

The group is using some 'House Rules', changes, or modificationsw to FC to better suite their needs. Below are some things ( to name a few ) they are doing, but not sure the full details yet.

- One mayor thing the group didnt like was that ships in FC move faster then they did in SFB. Now Ships simple pay double the cost for movement rounded up.

- The group wants to increase the leathality of weapons damage, ex- Phasers increase damage by 50% ( something they did with SFB yrs ago ).

- Instead of an auction ships declaring fire of what and how many weapons during an impulse; A players simply declares what ship he is targeting during an impulse, but writes down all the weapons that he will be firing on paper.

- Tractors, and Transporters have a range of one ( not sure if that is the case in FC ). Tractors can only be used on small units, such as Shuttles, Drones, etc, and can only Tractor an enemy ship if its crippled ( not sure what crippled means yet ), and doing away with many aspects of auctions.

Thanx
Joe
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Joe
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wedge_hammersteel
Commander


Joined: 27 Sep 2008
Posts: 579
Location: Lafayette, LA

PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joe, welcome to the board.

I am wondering if you are losing some of the finer points of FC with your house rules.

Quote:
One mayor thing the group didnt like was that ships in FC move faster then they did in SFB. Now Ships simple pay double the cost for movement rounded up.


“How are the ships moving too fast? I sometimes think that the ships don’t move fast enough. If they pay double the cost for movement, how do they have enough power to fire weapons?

Quote:
The group wants to increase the leathality of weapons damage, ex- Phasers increase damage by 50% ( something they did with SFB yrs ago ).


How close are your ships when they engage a battle? I have had battles where phasers scores over 50 points of damage in a single volley. The other weapons are pretty powerful as well.

Quote:
Instead of an auction ships declaring fire of what and how many weapons during an impulse; A players simply declares what ship he is targeting during an impulse, but writes down all the weapons that he will be firing on paper.


Its not really an”auction but a “me too” philosophy for firing weapons.

Quote:
Tractors, and Transporters have a range of one ( not sure if that is the case in FC ). Tractors can only be used on small units, such as Shuttles, Drones, etc, and can only Tractor an enemy ship if its crippled ( not sure what crippled means yet ), and doing away with many aspects of auctions.


Transports have a range of 5. If you don’t allow ship tractoring, then you are not using one of the best battle tactics in the game. Nothing feels better than tractoring an enemy ship so your suicide shuttle can get up close and personal with the damage.

However, too each his own. If you and your group are enjoying the game then thats all that matters.

We look forward to seeing you around the board.
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djdood
Fleet Captain


Joined: 01 Feb 2007
Posts: 2922
Location: Seattle, WA

PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To each their own.

My group has found that un-playtested house rules do nothing but cause problems.
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JoMc67
Lieutenant JG


Joined: 29 Jul 2009
Posts: 27

PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanx for the welcome guys,

They have playtested and still are these 'House Rules' with FC for years before coming to their own conclusion.
These guys ( including myself ) have played 'Star Trek Combat Simulator' in the past and like how Direct Fire, and movement is done compared to SFB (unfortunately the game system is incomplete with no Trans or Tractors so it was decided to discontinue play instead of adding rules to compensate ).

One guy is from the Navy, and another Airforce, and have decided its more likely that Combat in Space would be quick and deadly like Modern Warfare would be now.
The club states it this way; SFB and FC in its present state allows ships to get in close, broadside, close in again, broadside again, and board, over and over before a ship or fleet is finally disabled or destroyed ( akin to sailing ship combat of the past ).
Now, with these 'House Rules' that problem is reduced considerably. Basically, its a compromise between their experience with the 'Star Trek Combat Simulator and FC.

Either way, they want people to convert to their House Rules ( which I seem to like so far ) or not be part of the club.
However, will be getting in FC Klingon Border to see how well it plays out for myself before comming to my own conclusions.

Anyways, will be back to keep you posted.
Thanx
Joe
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Joe
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wedge_hammersteel
Commander


Joined: 27 Sep 2008
Posts: 579
Location: Lafayette, LA

PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Check out this link

http://www.starfleetgames.com/federation/Commanders%20Circle/

and click on

Find Players

Sign up for an account and you can check out if there are any players near you. Try a game with someone outside the House Rules Group to give yourself another impression of FC as it was meant to be played.

I was able to find two great local players.


Last edited by wedge_hammersteel on Sat Aug 01, 2009 4:33 am; edited 1 time in total
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Kahuna
Lieutenant SG


Joined: 23 Jul 2009
Posts: 139
Location: Spokane, WA

PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Welcome Joe,

Being a new FC player myself, I welcome you. I started about 3-4 weeks ago and have enjoyed the game so far. I hope you and your crew find equal enjoyment.

It appears you guys enjoy very fast games. If that's your flavor, enjoy. I like the broadsides and big boats better, but found SFB to get a bit too cumbersome. I love the game, I just couldn't dedicate enough time to do it all.

FC seems to be a pretty good balance. I can crack out a full game and move on, heck even do multi-ship fleets in a reasonable amount of time. However, I can appreciate anyone who wants to do something different.
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djdood
Fleet Captain


Joined: 01 Feb 2007
Posts: 2922
Location: Seattle, WA

PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll echo wedge_hammersteel's advice. Don't judge FedCom's gameplay by someone else's "mod" of it. I'm glad their approach works for them, but that isn't how battles played out on original series Trek (which FedCom derives from). They seem to want "Harpoon" with a Trek "skin". I prefer FedCom the way it is, and you might too.

Since this is ADB's board, it is pretty heavily focused on the game, "as-sold" and isn't actively supportive of mods and "house rules". They're not forbidden subjects, but most old-timers like me have little to no interest and the company itself is more interested in promoting the products they actually sell (as they should be).

Regardless, enjoy the game and welcome to the fold here.
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Scoutdad
Commodore


Joined: 09 Oct 2006
Posts: 4463
Location: Middle Tennessee

PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wedge_hammersteel wrote:

I was able to find two great local players.

There's two more (other than Matt and Mike?)
Twisted Evil
Oh! Of course... you're referring to Tim and I at CoastCon, aren't you! Wink

I'll third Burt and Will's recommendation. I check out the find players link for my area regularly adn have found several players within reasonable driving distance.

Aword of caution on "house rules" from an old-timer, if you're willing to listen:
There's nothing wrong with creating / using them if some aspects of the game do not appeal to you - just don't get in a mindset where you think those are the only way the game should be played.

I've hooked up with players all over the country as I travel (and go to Cons) and invariably, I'll get involved in a game and the other guy will do something that's blatantly against the rules as written, 'cause they have a house rule.
It's easier to accept defeat then to argue about it... and it can also be your downfal in an officially sanctioned tournament.

So to second Will... get the core game and play it out the way it's intended before you go a change it. I've played SFB since 1979 and have played FC since 2004 and IMHO, it plays just fine as is - of course, YMMV.

Either way, welcome to the forum and have fun playing "your" game!
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JoMc67
Lieutenant JG


Joined: 29 Jul 2009
Posts: 27

PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wedge,
Thanx for the link.
Its funny that you mentioned it, they say the same thing about their modified FC "Now...This is how FC should be played".
The group introduced me to FC, so I already have an idea what to expect. Its pretty much SFB just less complicated.
They meet about once or twice a month at either a Game shop or the house and so see no need to look elsewhere.
However, I will probably look for some PBEM gamers here in the near future after I get a chance to read over FC.

Kahuna
Thanx for the welcome. Yes, I guess they like quick and fun games. However, even with FC they say it usually takes a good part of the day to finish some of their games. I agree with you and why I ended up leaving SFB, because the rules where getting to cumbersome.
I think ADM should have switched completely over to FC and drop SFB years ago.
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Joe
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Mike
Captain


Joined: 07 May 2007
Posts: 1531
Location: South Carolina

PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2009 2:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've seen this reference to "ADM" before. What is ADM? Never heard of it.
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Mike
Captain


Joined: 07 May 2007
Posts: 1531
Location: South Carolina

PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2009 2:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One danger of using "house rules" is that many published scenarios may not play well or be balanced if house rules are applied. Besides the rock-em, sock-em type engagements, there are several scenarios that feature other aspects of the game such the use of maneuver, transporters, tractor beams, and labs. Of course, some would say they are not interested in those other aspects of the game. That's too bad. They might be missing out on a lot.

I think it is sad and unfortunate that new players would have to be forced to play with house rules in order to play with a local group of players. However, I can understand why they might like to protect their style of play.
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Wolverin61
Commander


Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Posts: 497
Location: Mississippi

PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2009 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ADM is a big agricultural conglomerate. ADB is a small company that produces games we know and love. Very Happy
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JoMc67
Lieutenant JG


Joined: 29 Jul 2009
Posts: 27

PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, I have had my copy of KB for the past month. I will let you know in future post what I have decieded to do with the game system.

Last week I recieved my order of FC Ref Rulebook, Romulan Space, and stant Kingdoms, but there were problems with the it.

- Romulan Space; I only recieved the Ship & Scenario Book, but no Counters or Laminated Ship Cards.

- Distant Kingdoms; I only recieved the Ship & Scenario Book, but no Retail Box ( if there is one ), Rules ( if there is one ) No Counters, No Laminated Ship Cards.

FC Ref Rulebook; I recieved this with no problems.

I Went ahead and emailed the Sales Dept the above problem to see what they can do for me.
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