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House rules
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MajerBlundor
Lieutenant SG


Joined: 03 Apr 2009
Posts: 123

PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 3:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
FC can be all of that, but moving those ships hex-by-hex does sometimes get tedious.


Since even an FC veteran such as Junior finds the sub-pulse system tedious enough to dispense with it at ranges >15 I think your ideas have merit.

Personally I think FC needs another round of hard-nosed clean-up. Unfortunately with BoM it will be going in the other direction.*

That's a key reason we've been so willing to mod it. If we thought it would remain true to its "less is more" origins we would have been more willing to stick with Original Flavor FC.

But as more and more ornaments get bolted on there's really no reason to stick to the Rules as Written if one is interested in a simpler Star Trek space combat experience.

MB

*Yes, yes, I've heard the rationale that BoM is a gateway from Star Trek to FC. If that were true we wouldn't see so many FC players on this forum drolling over BoM. The simple fact is that a lot FC gamers will adopt BoM and use it as part of their routine FC experience.

At the very least you'll end up with three different Star Trek space combat communities:

1. SFB

2. FC + BoM

3. FC

Making a personal mod is just another faction! Very Happy
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malleman
Lieutenant Commander


Joined: 12 Jan 2008
Posts: 308
Location: Lafayette, LA

PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 5:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MajerBlundor wrote:


*Yes, yes, I've heard the rationale that BoM is a gateway from Star Trek to FC. If that were true we wouldn't see so many FC players on this forum drolling over BoM.

I dont know about that. In our little group each of us started in SFB. We regularly play FC, but we are also interested in BoM. I am sure our group is not the only one like this.
Quote:
At the very least you'll end up with three different Star Trek space combat communities:...


Again, I don't see that BoM will divide the group into three different communities. I believe that it will simply offer SFB fans an opportunity to play quicker games, and offer FC fans an opportunity to play with other options (fighters, scouts, maulers...). In other words, I see it as a bridge that will make it easier for either SFB players, or FC players to cross over to the other side (ease the withdrawals of playing FC instead of playing SFB from SFB players, and ease the anxiety of playing SFB from FC players).
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pinecone
Fleet Captain


Joined: 03 May 2008
Posts: 1865
Location: Earth

PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And if you want to capture the actuall Trek feel, remeber that the only ships in FC that existed in star trek too were the Constitution (Fed CA), Saladin (Fed DD), Potolemy (Fed TUG), Hermes (Fed SC), Federation (Fed DN), D-7 (Klink D-7), Bird-of-Prey (Romulan WE), D-7 in use by Romulans (Romulan K7E, I think), And Tholian web maker ship (Tholian PC). And maybe the Gorn BC and Kzinti Police Ship (which actually isn't in FC, yet)
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MajerBlundor
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For those of us who started with Task Force game's SFB that's really our reference point.

Like so many systems (BattleTech, Squad Leader, etc.) there's a tendency to keep loading up the Christmas tree with more and more ornaments until the branches give way under the massive burden.

Same is happening with FC which started out with baggage from SFB. Just the nature of the beast.
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BTS
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Joined: 19 Jun 2009
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To the OP…

Mostly we like to use the stock rules, but sometimes time is of the essence and we modify a few rules here and there…

1. Single Movement Sub-Pulse.

We use 2A5 as written, but instead of spreading movement out over 4 sub-pulses, we use a single sub-pulse and perform all movement at once. It works really well in larger battles. It trades a few tactical opportunities for sped up game play. I wouldn’t suggest it for single 1 on 1 duels, but for multiple ship games, it’s actually pretty good.

2. Modified DAC.

When not using Directed Targetting, we roll a single die for DAC and use the appropriate table. If there is left over damage, instead of re-rolling for a new table, we simply move “up” to the next damage table. If we are on table 6, we move “up” to table 1, etc.

3. Mid Scale.

I like fleet scale. My usual opponent likes squadron scale. We split the difference sometimes and use squadron ships with fleet scale (1/2 strength) shields. It makes damage happen a lot sooner if we don’t have a lot of time to play.


I think it is good to play test different rules/ideas. Usually, house rules have taught me to see the logic behind why a stock rule was written the way it was. I like the FC rules - a lot. But, I'm not above changing them for a game or two to try something new. Wink
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malleman
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Joined: 12 Jan 2008
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Location: Lafayette, LA

PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MajerBlundor wrote:
For those of us who started with Task Force game's SFB that's really our reference point.


You mean like this right?
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg269/malisalleman/042-1.jpg

Again, some players like the options.
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MajerBlundor
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nope, there's an older one! Very Happy

As for options, no doubt that some players like more options. And more options. And then a few more. With just a couple more for variety.

And before you know it you have ASL, Starfire, SFB, AD&D, etc. Nothing wrong with that for those who enjoy them. But in every case the overall game system gets slower and slower and larger and larger.

Sometimes less if more but few designers can resist adding stuff.

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malleman
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Joined: 12 Jan 2008
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Location: Lafayette, LA

PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now that is cool Cool ! How did you keep your copy looking so new?

MajerBlundor wrote:

As for options, no doubt that some players like more options. And more options. And then a few more. With just a couple more for variety.

Without these options we would not have one of my favorite empires, the Lyrans.
Quote:
... in every case the overall game system gets slower and slower and larger and larger.

I am not disagreeing with you, but that is why BoM is an option to add a new level to your game.
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Mike
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Joined: 07 May 2007
Posts: 1559
Location: South Carolina

PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 10:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Point of discussion: single pulse movement during impulses.

Pro: movement would be quick.
Con: when ships are moving fast, the last ship to move would have a tremendous advantage in seeing what its opponent did.

Possible Solution: players plot their movement for the entire impulse and then execute it; the order of execution would make no difference.

The goal was to come up with a small number of movement cards that would indicate a player's movement plan for an impulse. Different cards for different turn modes, speeds, etc.

I quickly realized that this system would involve too many cards. However, another thought occurred. What if each card indicated just one type of movement such as move straight ahead, turn left/right, sideslip left/right, TAC left/right, Emer. Decel., or the 5 different types of HET? Throw in a card for acceleration and 4 cards for deceleration and that would be a total of 25 cards.

With these cards, a player would select and arrange in order the ones that would describe his ship's movement for an impulse. When each player is ready, they simply start with their top card and as they flip through the ones they selected and ordered, they move their ship on the map. A new popular game, Wings of War, was part of the inspiration for this system.

Example: A ship has a baseline speed of 16 and a turn mode of 2. The player might select cards in this order:

Accelerate
Turn Left
Straight Ahead
Sideslip Left
Decelerate
Turn Left

This would mean he is accelerating for the impulse (moving 3 hexes now). His first move is to turn left and move ahead 1 hex. Then he sideslips to the left (that's 2 hexes). Then he decelerates and in so doing, fulfills his turn mode. His third move is to simply turn left without moving ahead. As he flips through the cards he pays energy tokens/points when necessary.

The 25 cards cover everything that could be done by a ship moving at 24+ except for multiple HETs in the same impulse.

The possible HET cards are 180 degrees, 120 degrees left/right, and 60 degrees left/right. Each left and right is a separate card.

We're going to try this out on Monday to see how it works and how it affects the speed of play.

It changes two things about FC:
1. It combines all sub-pulse movement into a single move.
2. It eliminates a particular order of movement among ships. Drones would still move last, etc. In a sense, it is rather like the old plotted movement from SFB, but only FC impulse by impulse.

I mentioned Wings of War earlier. I could see a version of FC done in a Wings of War style format in which small cards with the top view images of ships would be used to maneuver on a tabletop. Superimposed on the image of the ship would be firing arcs for its weapons and shield boundaries. In WoW, the attacker's aim has to simply hit the opponent's card or airplane image, but in a FC version it would have to hit the center spot on the card (point to point). Something to think about.

And before anyone rejects this out of hand, what about Klingon Armada?
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Bolo_MK_XL
Commander


Joined: 16 Jan 2007
Posts: 793
Location: North Carolina

PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 11:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For cards with options of left or right -- Turns/Hets --

Put Right at top and left at bottom -- Just be sure to put the correct end up --

Far as HET -- left or right is immaterial as 1 hex right is same as 5 left ---

WoW type cards would work well for miniature games not on hex boards ---
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MajerBlundor
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Joined: 03 Apr 2009
Posts: 123

PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 12:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Now that is cool ! How did you keep your copy looking so new?


I foolishly sold my copy MANY years ago when I sold off most of my board game collection (made sense at the time as I was getting into miniatures).

That image is from Board Game Geek.
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MajerBlundor
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 12:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike,

I like the WoW card idea and have considered it for game using Star Wars mini space fighters. But the number of cards required for squadron vs squadron might be a bit much.

How about a notation system similar to Full Thurst?

With just a few letter codes it's pretty easy to plot maneuvers. Since you're dealing with only 4 hexes of movement max and just one or two maneuvers in most cases (eg a side slip and turn) it should be pretty easy.

Off the top of my head basic/core maneuvering would be just a few codes:

F = move one hex forward
L = slip one hex left
R = slip one hex right
T< = turn 60 degrees left
T> = turn 60 degree right

Thus...

FFR = move forward 2 hexes and slip 1 hex right
T>FF = turn right and move two hexes forward

Of course FC's use of Dry Erase markers means that you have a built in means of recording and immediately erasing orders!

MB
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hedgehobbit
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Joined: 26 May 2009
Posts: 19

PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think some movement cards comes with Module A+. There are seperate cards for right and left which cuts the number of cards needed in half. You play two cards at a time.

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/image/153690

There is an old game similar to WoW that uses hexes. Blue Max. Each plane has a set number of moves, like WoW, that you choose (written down). It allows each plane to be able to do certain moves that others can't and factors in speed as well (again, like WoW does). Each maneuver costs fuel but in FC you could swith that to make each move cost movement points (ie energy) and do both speed determination and movement plot in one step. Not sure how it would work since the ships in FedCom all move and turn pretty much alike.
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Scoutdad
Commodore


Joined: 09 Oct 2006
Posts: 4470
Location: Middle Tennessee

PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hedgehobbit wrote:
I think some movement cards comes with Module A+. There are seperate cards for right and left which cuts the number of cards needed in half. You play two cards at a time.

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/image/153690


There is also two complete sets of Federation Commander command cards in the product Federation Commander: Orion Attack ...
or you can buy extra copies of the Command Cards as spare parts from the Starfleet Store
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wedge_hammersteel
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Joined: 27 Sep 2008
Posts: 581
Location: Lafayette, LA

PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I looked at the Orion Attack command cards.

This may be a dumb question but for what are the "Dummy" cards used?
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