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The Andromedans and new Aliens Questions.
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Starsuperion
Lieutenant JG


Joined: 06 Sep 2009
Posts: 80

PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 1:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mjwest wrote:
Starsuperion wrote:
mjwest wrote:
Starsuperion wrote:
Also are there plans to also produce more ships based on the TOS?

In short, no.

This prohibition also includes the "First Federation".


that kinda sucks.. sheesh.. what about ADB creating their own aliens and ships?? Is that forbidden Paramount?

Obviously not. However, there are already a massive number of aliens already in the game. In Federation Commander alone, we have the various races of the Federation, the Klingons, the Romulans, the Gorns, the Kzinti, the Lyrans, and the Hydrans. Plus the Tholians and Seltorians. The Lyrans, Hydrans, and Seltorians are purely ADB inventions.

Plus, next year, the various aliens of the ISC, and the Vudar will be added to Federation Commander.

So, yes, ADB can add (and indeed has added) new races to the Star Fleet Universe. As long as they are of ADB's invention, they can be added. But that wasn't your original question. Your original question only asked if TOS races, such as the First Federation, could be added. And that answer is no.



oh wow!! I had no Idea that the ADB aliens weren't part of the cartoon universe, or some obscure novel or something from the TOS days..

Holy crap! that is sooo cool!!! thanks for clearing that up for me.. Very Happy

I have renewed awe over this Fedcom game!!


djdood wrote:
Starsuperion -

One thing to understand: Federation Commander is just one game within the Star Fleet Universe of games (all modern version of which are designed and produced by ADB). They don't do different "settings" (like D&D and some other war games). Every game ADB does right now is set in the SFU and the empires, ships, monsters, etc. all look and act the same way (as closely as possible) in the various games (SFB, FedCom, SFBF, F&E, etc., etc.).

The SFU is based-on TOS and animated Trek, but diverged and went its own way a long, long, time ago (especially once The Motion Picture came out). The SFU became its own animal - a Trekker will instantly recognize the familiar parts of it, but there is a lot more to a fleshed-out game-universe than 79 episodes (and a couple of animated 1/2 hours) can show. In some cases, ADB (wisely) chose to ignore certain things in the shows.

They can (and do) add anything to the SFU that they want to (since the SFU is theirs).

The key thing is that it has to be their design (and Intellectual Property). The issues with Paramount's IP (and Franz Joseph Designs') has already been covered here and in other threads. ADB creates their own content and (as SVC was indicating above) protects it.

BTW - If you haven't read this page, you've missed one of the best introductions to the SFU that is out there.

Star Fleet Battles started it all (w-a-y back in 1979). Most everything started there first and still does; the Andromedans, Vudar, Jindarians, Omega-empires [cue Gary Carney], the various weapons, etc., etc. SFB has dozens of empires in it (if you count the "fringe" stuff like Omega and Simulator empires), literally thousands of ships, and hundreds of pages to explain and cover it all.

With a very few rare exceptions, everything in FedCom is "ported-over" and distilled-down from SFB, which had it first. FedCom gets the flavor, without the bulk (and rules-crunch).

In many cases like the Vudar, they are "fringe" empires in SFB and there just wasn't enough folks clamoring for minis to be produced for them to be a priority over things that were guaranteed to sell. Now that the line is quite fleshed out (and with FedCom expanding the market for the minis) things like the Vudar get a crack at being pewter. IIRC, troubles with those masters have kept them on the bench for a while, but Captains Log 39 says they are finally coming soon.

I hope this helps.


Again, this is stunning news to me, and as a Newcomer, it can be hard to discuss things with others on forums who already know what I am just now scratching the surface to. everyday, I am delving deeper into the back ground of the ADB games and learning more and more..

to understand there is an entire realm of ideas and ships, races, and much more to this game then I could have ever known..

it's amazing..

I see how the SFU differs from the Star Trek universe.. and how it can greatly expand beyond it's current mode..

the minis that sell have peaked and I am so glad I am joining this media now, with the focus now being on other alien races.. I think that in time the powers that be at ADB will realize that one of the best selling points and attractive parts of the Fedcom game is the simplistic rules, emphasis on game play and the plethora of aliens and other races yet to be discovered. I am so intrigued by the Hydrans, the Seltorians and Andros.. that I can't decide who I'd want to play more, and what is funny is that going into the game, i thought my first choice was the Federation, Klingons, or Romulans.. but it is not!! How nuts is that!!


timp77 wrote:


Awesome that ADB designs their own races! hahah starsuperion
Nice topic you started Cool


thanks man! I am glad to see you here as well!! Isn't that awesome about ADB doing their own aliens!! OMG!!! I can't wait to get painting and reading some rules for this!! I think I may want to play Tholians first!! Very Happy
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djdood
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 2:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Starsuperion -

This is a very newb-friendly board (friendly in-general actually).

Folks here will fall all over themselves to help new people, as long as the new folks return the favor by being respectful of the games, the designers, other folks on the board, etc.

Sometimes new folks get so frustrated that they "can't have Cardassians or Klingon 'Bird of Prey' ships" that they get... well... let's just say the discussions don't always go very well when they get told the reality of ADB and the SFU and it doesn't match what they want.

You seem excited about what is available and coming, so you are among other excited people here. Welcome.
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Starsuperion
Lieutenant JG


Joined: 06 Sep 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 4:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

djdood wrote:
Starsuperion -

This is a very newb-friendly board (friendly in-general actually).

Folks here will fall all over themselves to help new people, as long as the new folks return the favor by being respectful of the games, the designers, other folks on the board, etc.

Sometimes new folks get so frustrated that they "can't have Cardassians or Klingon 'Bird of Prey' ships" that they get... well... let's just say the discussions don't always go very well when they get told the reality of ADB and the SFU and it doesn't match what they want.

You seem excited about what is available and coming, so you are among other excited people here. Welcome.



thanks djdood..

I am not so interested in those ships.. like you said others on here may be upset that they don't get to play those races.. but I was never big on being overly tuned to one specific race, or faction..

the fact being that the SFU includes multiple races beyond what is already known, and retains that classic federation feel to it is what makes me more interested.

It is like the SFU takes what the TV show could have become and molds it into a fantastic universe of other empires and aliens that the movies, and future series tended to ignore..there is so much more to the SFU then there is in the STU. I am very pleased to know that there are others who share this view point.. and to those who get angry over not getting what they want.. oh well, there is always the FASA models out there..

as for what I want?? well, I suppose as a new comer, the most Ai could hope for are new ships..I love the Andromedans.. (I can't wait for the expansion that gives them rules and maybe...Oh please God....More miniatures of varying designs..)

the idea of the First Federation..that would have been cool..

but hey, maybe the ADB could come up with some sort of alien race that kinda homages the FF in some ways..like a large space weapon and power source that is controlled by a smaller command ship piloted by no more then three members.. call them the command triad, Laughing that even sounds like an old TOS term..

the alien race could be names they decide on, but I like the idea of a ship that basically just has 1 to 3 crew, and is connected to some larger power and weapon source.. with a race that is ancient in terms of their technology and status..like they have been around for eons before any of the others even became space travelers...

it is one of the cool things about the first federation and the "Corbomite Maneuver" episode that excites the science fiction and imagination in me..

Don't get me wrong, I'm not one of those "if they don't make my idea I hate you all kinda people!" nope, not me, and heck I'm just an easy going guy...

but it would be kinda cool to see what the ADB people could do with this idea and how they could base an entire ancient empire on the idea of a small ship hooking up with a larger one which is just the weaponry and power source for the smaller one.. and include some kind of automated drones for support.. (like not infringe on the Paramount First Federation from the TOS) but certainly inspired by it to some degree..

just an idea..

I would like to know if there is some kind of online compendium of races, ships and back ground history where I can immerse myself in the SFU database of ADB created races, beyond the ones I already know of???

thanks much,
Adam
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djdood
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 4:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's some stuff on wikipedia and on ADB's websites (like the History of the General War), but for the most part, ADB would like you to buy their products to get the background for the game.

You find a ton of stuff just by browsing the online index for ADB's website.
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Kang
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 8:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's great to see your enthusiasm, Adam. You're right that the SFU has become [and continues to become] all that the STU could have been. You will find that the history of the races and their wars is completely consistent and logical [as far as wars can be logical, anyway], and that the universe as a whole is a rich and varied place full of ideas, interest and surprises.

The SF Universe as a whole has grown up from a unique mixture of the sheer creativity of the designers and developers - Steve Cole and Steve Petrick and their team, as well as the contributions of countless fans, writers, players and admirers. The consistency has been marshalled carefully by the designer, Steve Cole, to ensure few if any contradictions in the history or the technology. In fact I can't think of any such.

This makes the whole thing somewhat Tolkien-esque, as I have expressed elsewhere. Nowhere else will you find a universe that is such a brilliantly plausible blend of fan fiction, canon Trek, Steve's material, contributions from players, and other things that all go together to create the marvel that is the Star Fleet Universe.

So, welcome, and enjoy!
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Starsuperion
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Joined: 06 Sep 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

djdood wrote:
There's some stuff on wikipedia and on ADB's websites (like the History of the General War), but for the most part, ADB would like you to buy their products to get the background for the game.

You find a ton of stuff just by browsing the online index for ADB's website.


thanks for the tip, I will check them out, and I will be buying some materials here soon enough. I just found out about this like 1 week ago, and I have yet to explore fully this website and read all the materials and info within or on the net. Most of what I have been doing is looking for visual references and aliens race info. I like to read up on what makes a culture and society tick, why they have beef with another race, and what their evolution in technology geared them towards. the ships themselves, their design and execution.. stuff like that is very intriguing to me..

the rules, meh.. that will all come later..for now, I just want to slowly immerse myself in the different alien races that are there and decide ultimately who my favorite team will be..

I think that for my first foray into the fedcom world, I am going to be playing the Tholians.. my friend and I have bought a box set together, and he is playing the Kzinti.. His brother is playing the Klingons.. so it should be fun since they are all enemies..

again, thanks for the help, and I will be buying more materials soon to learn more about this SFU, and dropping by the forums for a visit.. Very Happy





Kang wrote:
It's great to see your enthusiasm, Adam. You're right that the SFU has become [and continues to become] all that the STU could have been. You will find that the history of the races and their wars is completely consistent and logical [as far as wars can be logical, anyway], and that the universe as a whole is a rich and varied place full of ideas, interest and surprises.

The SF Universe as a whole has grown up from a unique mixture of the sheer creativity of the designers and developers - Steve Cole and Steve Petrick and their team, as well as the contributions of countless fans, writers, players and admirers. The consistency has been marshalled carefully by the designer, Steve Cole, to ensure few if any contradictions in the history or the technology. In fact I can't think of any such.

This makes the whole thing somewhat Tolkien-esque, as I have expressed elsewhere. Nowhere else will you find a universe that is such a brilliantly plausible blend of fan fiction, canon Trek, Steve's material, contributions from players, and other things that all go together to create the marvel that is the Star Fleet Universe.

So, welcome, and enjoy!



I think for the most part the SFU seems vary believable and well thought out..Steve Cole and Steve Petrick and their team, have done an excellent job.. what also intrigues me is that there have been fan contributions.. I love the idea that as a fan, with a well thought out design and story that they would consider using those ideas and incorporating them within the SFU! that is exciting stuff!

I have a fledgling comic book company that is in the works.. and someday I'd like to go and print those comics.. for now, we are working on expanding our copyrights and such.. but If I get more involved into the SFU, and delve deeper into the history and mechanics of the game, I may down the road try and submit a completely "Free" contribution that may or may not be accepted.. but as it stands right now, if they wanted some ideas from me, I'd be all over it simply for the pure love of the SFU..

not looking for a job, just would love to do my part to help out..

anyhow, I have read some of the alien bios on here and found that the ones mentioned in the title page are very interesting..

Beware below! lots of Newb questions!!! Smile


Is the ADB working on more miniatures for races that are already out?

What Miniatures are they working on for future expansion sets?

Are their main focus on developing game play, counters and Boosters? (I am assuming Boosters are cheaper then developing minis..and it can get the rules and game play out to the fans faster, still having the minis to paint and hold is a dream come true.. ha ha ha)

What plans do we know of for the Andros?

Is there an inside track to what we could expect with the set next year?

like new ships?

Any designs of ships I can get a link to to check out as a teaser??

I was reading allot about the Magellenic cloud kingdoms, the stepping stone for the Andro invasion, are those kingdoms and their ships going to be part of the Andro army as captured vessels?

what about the giant Andro base stations from which they stage their wars from the Magellenic cloud to the milky way galaxy?

Will the Magellenic cloud races have their own future expansions?

Will we also see more unique ships for the ISC and their war?

I now know of the existence of the resculpted Juggernaut coming out, but what other "space Monsters" can I expect to see, any I have not yet heard of?

End of lengthy Question rants....

thanks gain guys for making this Newb feel comfortable. I am glad to have met you, and your amazing Miniatures ships galleries are impressive and inspiring.. thanks for those links and sharing with me..

there are several aspects of this game I adore, and one of which is the ability to set scenarios.. like instead of doing a strictly massive fleet Vs fleet battle.. I can get some minor miniatures and play a scenario based around protecting a cargo ship, with a federation police ship escort..

Or a "monster" battle, which means teaming up with an opponent to defeat the monster and save your sector of space..

Or I can do a scenario which centers on the capture of a base station, or battle station.. or a strictly disable the ship and tractor beam it back to base/sector/octant type game.. there is just so much more to game play here then I have realized initially, which means more fun!!
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The Ghost
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Joined: 18 Oct 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some information related to your questions.

Fed Com products are grouped together such that as a new group of ships is released in a "xxxx attack" product or a "booster ##", associated miniatures follow shorthly thereafter in a "border ##" box and "squadron box ##".

In some cases miniatures already exist for use with Star Fleet Battles and are included in the appropriate Fed Com product when the ship is added to the Fed Com environment. If a miniature does not exist, one is created to fill the slot in the Fed Com product.

Projected future expansions include "Hydran Attack" (more ships for Lyrans, Hydrans, WYN and Kzinti) latter this year and "War and Peace" next year. "War and Peace" is slatted to include the Interstellar Concurdium, Vudar and possibly the Andromedans.

Communiques normally include information on future plans. They sometimes include ships that will be in future products (i.e. ISC and Vudar). A link to the latest one is here.

http://www.starfleetgames.com/federation/Commanders%20Circle/documents/Communique-44.pdf

A new one should be out shortly. They are usually published around the 10th of the month or shortly thereafter.

Some other good info (additional ship cards, etc) is located up a level in the commanders circle. This includes the ships from communique, which gives some of the ships that will likely be in future products (i.e. War and Peace).

http://www.starfleetgames.com/federation/Commanders%20Circle/resources.shtml

Another place to find info about products that are about to be releaseed is the Star Fleet Alerts area

http://www.starfleetgames.com/starfleetalert.shtml
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Starsuperion
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Joined: 06 Sep 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Ghost wrote:
Some information related to your questions.

Fed Com products are grouped together such that as a new group of ships is released in a "xxxx attack" product or a "booster ##", associated miniatures follow shorthly thereafter in a "border ##" box and "squadron box ##".

In some cases miniatures already exist for use with Star Fleet Battles and are included in the appropriate Fed Com product when the ship is added to the Fed Com environment. If a miniature does not exist, one is created to fill the slot in the Fed Com product.

Projected future expansions include "Hydran Attack" (more ships for Lyrans, Hydrans, WYN and Kzinti) latter this year and "War and Peace" next year. "War and Peace" is slatted to include the Interstellar Concurdium, Vudar and possibly the Andromedans.

Communiques normally include information on future plans. They sometimes include ships that will be in future products (i.e. ISC and Vudar). A link to the latest one is here.

http://www.starfleetgames.com/federation/Commanders%20Circle/documents/Communique-44.pdf

A new one should be out shortly. They are usually published around the 10th of the month or shortly thereafter.

Some other good info (additional ship cards, etc) is located up a level in the commanders circle. This includes the ships from communique, which gives some of the ships that will likely be in future products (i.e. War and Peace).

http://www.starfleetgames.com/federation/Commanders%20Circle/resources.shtml

Another place to find info about products that are about to be releaseed is the Star Fleet Alerts area

http://www.starfleetgames.com/starfleetalert.shtml



Absolutely fantastic!! I am greatful for the explanation.. now I can go back and read the communique and get up to speed before the other comes out! great work!! thanks man! Very Happy
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Starsuperion
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay, So my friend and I are picking which alien races we want to be in the Federation Commander game.

Here is the problem..

My Friend is going to play the Kzinti

His Brother is going to field the Klingons..

I have a choice between the Tholians, and the Seltorians.

I really like the Seltorians, but they had help from the Klingon empire in the creation of their fleet... so does that make them allies??

If I field the Seltorians wouldn't that conflict?

I was thinking on doing the Federation, but I found out that they and the Kzinti have a sort of Alliance, so does that rule my fleet choice out?

How do alliances and back stories come into play in the fleet battles and preferences?

Does it matter, or is the game set up that any race and faction can be at war with any other faction..Romulan vs Wyn, etc..etc..

that is pretty much the biggest hang up I have is like "well, I like such and such, but they are allies with such and such.. damn!! I really wanted to play them too!!.."
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Sllarr
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In general terms and if your are referring to the " General War" period in the SFU you are correct.
Kzinti are allied to the Federation and Seltorians are allied to the Klingons.
But with that said there are inumerous situations where those alliances were different. The Kinti and Federation for example, had two (maybe three, I am not sure) wars against each other before the Klingon threat forced them to work together. Just check the fiction story on Captain's Log #24 for an example of that.
The point is that everybody had a conflict with everybody at a specific point in time. So do not feel obligated to follow the General War allegiances if you do not want to.
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Kang
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Starsuperion wrote:
Does it matter, or is the game set up that any race and faction can be at war with any other faction..Romulan vs Wyn, etc..etc..

Well, it's your game, you can play it how you like! If you decide to field Feds vs. Gorn, do it. If you decide to fit Klingon ships with cloaking devices or photon torpedoes, like in the movies, go ahead and do it.

Granted, certain ships are designed to fight better against their historical opponents, but this in itself can lead to some intersting battles where ships are fighting 'enemy' ships that they are not 'optimised' against.

Bottom line: So long as you enjoy what you're doing, play the game any way you like!
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OGOPTIMUS
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just to add a few more small details.

There are always "border incidents". Just because two governments are at peace doesn't mean that everyone in those empires holds it. And some ship captains just go nuts!

That's part of how the 2nd Fed Kzinti war started.

Plus, the Klingons exterminated the last of the Seltorians after the ISC was done with them. So there's another example of allies turning on one another.

Also, it's been mentioned elsewhere that the Seltorians are very good at fighting the Tholians, but are at a disadvantage fighting everyone else (maybe I'm getting this from the SFB tournament section). I'm not saying it's impossible, there are plenty of people out there who can win with them very often, that just seems to be a sentiment going around.

You might want to give any and all races a go around with the ships in Communique before you go invest in anything. Start with a heavy cruiser and go from there (I remember seeing the Seltorian CA in there recently).

That said, welcome aboard and it's great to see more people getting into the game.
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Kahuna
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I also wanted to give you a welcome to the boards. I've been quietly watching most of the posts as of late but wanted to chip in a bit on this one.

I'm one of those guys that happily allow anyone who wants, to play any race against any other. Some people just LOVE their favorite races and almost always pick them. I'm not so focused but don't always want to be the same enemy races. Also, as pointed out above, I believe every "empire" has battled at one time or another with every other neighbor empire at one time or another. Individuals ships have crossed the line and criminal elements sometimes come into play. Heck, if wanted, I'd even allow same races to fight against one another. I think the movie "Wrath of Khan" is an example of how something like that might play out. It doesn't really matter how that ship ended up fighting for the other side as much as it matters that you now have to get through them.
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mjwest
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Starsuperion wrote:
Okay, So my friend and I are picking which alien races we want to be in the Federation Commander game.

Well, don't forget that part of the fun of the game is trying new things out. So, don't get too stuck with one race. Try out several!

Quote:
I really like the Seltorians, but they had help from the Klingon empire in the creation of their fleet... so does that make them allies??

The Seltorians and Klingons were merely allies of convenience. In fact, once it became inconvenient, the Klingons slaughtered the Seltorians. To a bug (as much as they could).

So, that shouldn't be a problem. Smile

The bigger issue is that the Seltorians are really designed to fight Tholians. As such, they are disadvantaged against some of the more common races. So, before taking the Seltorians, know that there will be difficulties.

Quote:
I was thinking on doing the Federation, but I found out that they and the Kzinti have a sort of Alliance, so does that rule my fleet choice out?

Not a problem. While the Federation and Kzinti are allied against the Klingons in the General War, they really hate each other. They are (again) only allied out of convenience.

Quote:
How do alliances and back stories come into play in the fleet battles and preferences?

Really, they only come into play however you want them to. They are part of the backdrop, not an integral component of the game.

Quote:
Does it matter, or is the game set up that any race and faction can be at war with any other faction..Romulan vs Wyn, etc..etc..

that is pretty much the biggest hang up I have is like "well, I like such and such, but they are allies with such and such.. damn!! I really wanted to play them too!!.."

No, it doesn't really matter. If you want to play Feds v Gorns or Klingons v Lyrans (probably the strongest alliances in the game), go for it. Heck, if you want to go with Fed v Fed or Kzinti v Kzinti, go for it. The sad part is that with many of the empires, a civil war type conflict is even "historical"!
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djdood
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As-above; play what you want (just be mindful of where going "off trail" can cause some pit falls [i.e. Seltorians kill Tholians good, but not so good on anybody else, Gorns aren't particularly good at drone-defense, etc.]).

Just be aware that the historical alliances and enmities are more than just fiction-fodder. The ships, weapons, and tactics all nest in with the relationships.

The Lyran empire and all its ships and weapons were designed to be excellent allies for the Klingons against the Kzintis (and to give the Kzintis fits on their own). The ESG helps neutralize the Kzinti's drone advantage.

The Gorn's ships were made to be the "plasma empire that doesn't cloak" and they work really well with Federation ships (and give the Romulans real trouble on their own).

Taken as a whole, the various factions in the SFU are balanced against each other when they follow the "historical timeline". Outside of that and results get unpredictable but manageable.

A Gorn BC should be able to aquit itself decently against an equivalent Kzinti ship, even though geographically it's extremely unlikely they would meet in battle in the official setting (and their weapons are not optimized to fight each other).

Kzintis aren't made to fight plasma - they fight Klingons and (especially) Lyrans, when they're not too busy fighting each other.

Gorns aren't made to fight hordes of drones - they fight sneaky big-plasma Romulans, accidentally exterminated the Paravians, briefly scuffled with the Feds, and end up fighting the Romulans again and again because they don't want to repeat their mistake by truly de-tech'ing the Romulans.

The only time the "historical backdrop" is really a factor is if you are submitting work you created (stories, scenarios, etc.) for publication. ADB won't publish things that don't fit the SFU, except in very unique circumstances (Stellar Shadows Journal, etc.).
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