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The Andromedans and new Aliens Questions.
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wedge_hammersteel
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Joined: 27 Sep 2008
Posts: 579
Location: Lafayette, LA

PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can you give us a front view and a back view of those ships?
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Scoutdad
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Joined: 09 Oct 2006
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Location: Middle Tennessee

PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wedge_hammersteel wrote:
Can you give us a front view and a back view of those ships?


Well D'Uh!
That'san easy one. Print out the page and turn it 90 degrees right or left, depending on whether you wantto see the front or the rear! Rolling Eyes
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wedge_hammersteel
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Joined: 27 Sep 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And I guess I would just turn the paper over to see the underside of those ships.
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djdood
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Joined: 01 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All standard-practice in Tennessee. Laughing
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Starsuperion
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Joined: 06 Sep 2009
Posts: 80

PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LMAo!!!

you guys are hilarious!! I almost spit my diet coke on the keyboard!!

yeah I can whip up some underside images of the commander cruiser and back and front views as well.. not a problem!

I should also start work on the mini fighters and the large graviton satellite weapon as well.. bare in mind the ships have a decidedly curved look from the front and back like an upside down "U" or a "( " turned on it's right side..

I shall post them as soon as I finish..

Very Happy
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Nerroth
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Joined: 08 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 1:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One thing which might be worth noting is that there are currently a selection of empires who are listed in various timelines, but who currently have no published ship data.


Examples are the Chomak Community (a long-standing empire based in a cluster on the fringe of the Lesser Magellanic Cloud) and the Echarri Dynasty (supposed exiles from a more distant part of the galaxy who colonise and expand into the Omega Octant in the 2600s and onwards) - but others exist.


That's not to say that either of those, or any other pre-existing empire-in-waiting, would be the right fit for these guys - but I thought it might be worth noting, in any event.


Oh, and if you are registered on the legacy BBS, it might be an idea to post a new thread for discussing your ship designs here.
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Starsuperion
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Joined: 06 Sep 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 3:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nerroth wrote:
One thing which might be worth noting is that there are currently a selection of empires who are listed in various timelines, but who currently have no published ship data.


Examples are the Chomak Community (a long-standing empire based in a cluster on the fringe of the Lesser Magellanic Cloud) and the Echarri Dynasty (supposed exiles from a more distant part of the galaxy who colonise and expand into the Omega Octant in the 2600s and onwards) - but others exist.


well I sure would like to study and maybe work up some designs for those aliens.. would be fun for me to submit work, whether it gets used or not, maybe it'll jog someone's imagination and help the process develop along easier with ideas and ship designs that are not necessarily on someone's mind..


Nerroth wrote:
That's not to say that either of those, or any other pre-existing empire-in-waiting, would be the right fit for these guys - but I thought it might be worth noting, in any event.


Oh, and if you are registered on the legacy BBS, it might be an idea to post a new thread for discussing your ship designs here.


I shall have to check that out sometime. but if I submit my work there, wouldn't that negate it's use in the fed comm and SFU universe??



By the way on a different note:


I am going to be fielding the Federation in the Fed Comm Klingon Border box series.. this is so exciting!! My first fleet!! my friends are playing the Klingons and the Kzinti!! A wonderful and powerful match up..

4 things:

1. I like the classic and smooth style saucer sections for the Fed ships, does the federation war destroyer come in a smooth saucer section?? Are there smooth saucer sections for all the Fed ships? (not fond of the modern super detailed and fanning-out lined versions..)

2. the paint schemes for the Federation are confusing to me, are they grayish white or white?? I would prefer to paint my fleet an all white-ish Gray color like the classic Enterprise ship from TOS..would that be more in line with the actual colors??

3. The Federation Battle Ship seems so small compared to the rest of the Battleships in the box set.. the condor, the Klingon cruiser and the Kzinti Warship seem so big compared to my Federation Mars class (which I will be buying the decals to call it the USS Mars.. Tee Hee)

is My Federation Warship a match for those other ships.. it seems so small in comparison??

4. are there any ideas coming soon for a federation super class warship, possibly a larger version of the Mars class??


also can anyone please present me with a really clear picture of their Federation command class cruiser, I'd love to see these extensive details that it has over the Heavy cruiser, that the website touts on the starline miniature page??


By the way all of you guys Miniature galleries are amazing!!

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mjwest
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Joined: 08 Oct 2006
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Location: Dallas, Texas

PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 3:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Starsuperion wrote:
Nerroth wrote:
Oh, and if you are registered on the legacy BBS, it might be an idea to post a new thread for discussing your ship designs here.


I shall have to check that out sometime. but if I submit my work there, wouldn't that negate it's use in the fed comm and SFU universe??

No.

In fact, submitting anything on this forum will get responses like "Ooo! That's pretty!" Which is, admittedly, pretty cool. However, if you want to formally submit anything for the SFU (whether Federation Commander, or SFB, or F&E), you need to submit it on the Legacy BBS (as mentioned by Gary). Or use email directly to Steve Cole.

On a completely different subject, those last four items seem to be directly related to miniatures. Please move any miniature related conversations down to the Miniature topics.

Thank you.
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Starsuperion
Lieutenant JG


Joined: 06 Sep 2009
Posts: 80

PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mjwest wrote:
Starsuperion wrote:
Nerroth wrote:
Oh, and if you are registered on the legacy BBS, it might be an idea to post a new thread for discussing your ship designs here.


I shall have to check that out sometime. but if I submit my work there, wouldn't that negate it's use in the fed comm and SFU universe??

No.

In fact, submitting anything on this forum will get responses like "Ooo! That's pretty!" Which is, admittedly, pretty cool. However, if you want to formally submit anything for the SFU (whether Federation Commander, or SFB, or F&E), you need to submit it on the Legacy BBS (as mentioned by Gary). Or use email directly to Steve Cole.

On a completely different subject, those last four items seem to be directly related to miniatures. Please move any miniature related conversations down to the Miniature topics.

Thank you.


ah that makes sense.. thanks for the help.. Miniatures is a definite topic I am interested in.. a tangible representation of a cool starship.. this game is awesome!

But I was thinking that in terms of size comparison, and though it relates to the miniatures in scale, I was wondering if in the Andro War, wouldn't starfleet want some thing bigger??

So I will most likely submit this in the Legacy BBS, or email Steve myself.. But I think that if Starfleet was at war with the ISC, and they started building a large and powerful super warship to help end the war that would seem logical. Given our history as Humans to create something so huge and imposing that it brings the enemy down with fear..

Air craft carriers and warships have always had this function.. the scarier or bigger the weapon or ship, the more scared the enemy will ultimately be..

Now In this vein of thought, I was hypothesizing that the Federation would have commissioned a Large warship to help end the ISC war..however, once the news of the Andros came into the picture, they quickly revised their ship designs and construction, and not until near the end of the war, was the "Fortress Class" used.

the Fortress Class Warship was designed specifically with Intel brought to the Federation by spies in the outlying territories. The video data obtained showed how the Andros had a massive warship called the "Decimator!" Starfleet decided to use the previous warship construction and refine it's abilities..

Not only does the Fortress Class Ship have the capability to sustain combat with multiple foes, it also has increased phaser and photon torpedo emplacements, it also has it's own Tactical Bridge!

With a Tactical Bridge, there is a separate crew whose sole purpose is to direct phaser fire at multiple targets, and coordinate fleet activity and movement.

the Large disc Shaped Main Engineering is where most of the ships propulsion and control is maintained, leaving the majority of the under-Hull open for Federation shock troops and shuttle craft, or drones for use in combat.

After Studying the tactics of the Andros, the Federation also decided to go with Heavy reinforced wings for the Warp Nacells, thus protecting it from the Tractor beam based weaponry, and allowing the ship to weather it's effects while trying to maintain an attack vector. The Larger Impulse Engines on both the aft of the saucer section and the Main engineering section provides great "Hair pin turns" and maneuverability while in combat.

unlike the Mars Class, the Phaser Banks with the Fortress Class are spread out around the saucer section to maximize the target field.

The Fortress Class Ship is very costly and was a monumental task to construct, to date the Federation has only created 3 of the Fortress Class warships. The Bulk of their main attack fleet is comprised of the smaller yet still powerful Mars Class. The Three ships commissioned for the War with the Andros are: The U.S.S. Superion, U.S.S. Dominance, U.S.S. Colossus.

A comparison for the Fortress Class and the Mars Class is shown below:


I am going to refine the specs and the idea and send it to Steve Cole, and post it on the Legacy BBS..

Special thanks to Vance's Schematics for making my design work easy..
http://subodeon.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=ships&action=print&thread=703
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Last edited by Starsuperion on Fri Oct 02, 2009 5:30 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Kang
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Joined: 23 Sep 2007
Posts: 1956
Location: Devon, UK

PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All very creative stuff, Starsuperion. The Fortress class are very impressive indeed.

You really should consider creating an ADB-approved website upon which to display your ship designs! What you have here is essentially an 'alternative-timeline' Federation; something that would possibly not 'fit in' with the existing Fed Commander Star Fleet but which nevertheless could still enhance the Universe.

In fact I note that there are not yet all that many Fed Commander fan sites out there - plenty of SFB ones, but not Fed Commander. Yours may even be the first!
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Starsuperion
Lieutenant JG


Joined: 06 Sep 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kang wrote:
All very creative stuff, Starsuperion. The Fortress class are very impressive indeed.

You really should consider creating an ADB-approved website upon which to display your ship designs! What you have here is essentially an 'alternative-timeline' Federation; something that would possibly not 'fit in' with the existing Fed Commander Star Fleet but which nevertheless could still enhance the Universe.

In fact I note that there are not yet all that many Fed Commander fan sites out there - plenty of SFB ones, but not Fed Commander. Yours may even be the first!


Oh, has the timeline for the the ANDROS war already been completed?? i was trying to come up with a class of ships that could be used in the game against their Decimator class ships..the design I felt was near to what we could see if the SFU and Starfleet had gone that route..

So what possible reasons for this class of ship "not fitting" into the existing universe are you concerned about?

I take no offense, believe me, you guys on here are more experts at this then I am, however, I just want to be confident in my submitting to the Legacy BBS and Steve Cole. So as to be as accurate as I can about the timeline of events, the reasons behind the ships design, and functionality in combat..

To me as with in WWII the flying fortress ships had different sections dedicated to specific tasks, with the Fortress class I figured why not do the same, and have the Tactical Bridge a separate feature, so it serves high command and their war tactics for the fleet, with phaser control, and Gatling phaser control, photon torpedos and such at their expressed command.. leaving the Admiral in the main bridge to focus on engineering, Navigation, and maneuvering matters..

the tactical Bridge would also have it's own communications setup for fleet contact and a battle ground (space) series of View screens to view every sector of the Fleet in combat.. a sort of floating functional fortress of command..

in any event, I'd love to hear comments on what I can do to improve this idea.. as it relates for use in the Andro war..if not then It was a great idea..maybe its a ship that never saw combat in the Andro war..
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Kang
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Joined: 23 Sep 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I meant more that the biggest ships - the ultimate ships, if you like - in each race, are the Battleships. If your drawings are to scale, the Fortress class are even bigger. That was what I meant in terms of fitting in with the existing Star Fleet. Put another way, I don't think that the Feds would ever have fielded a bigger ship than those of the Mars class, for that reason alone.

The timeline for the General War is available here:

http://www.starfleetgames.com/documents/Timeline.pdf

and if you can find a niche in that structure for your Andro War stuff, then all good luck to you Smile

Just because the 'space' does not exist in the current 'canon' (ADB/SFU) Star Fleet, does not prevent you from creating them yourself, and subject to ADB's permission, publishing them!
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OGOPTIMUS
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Joined: 10 Nov 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And also remember that in proper SFU cannon, nobody except the Klingons ever built a battleship. All the designs in module R5 (Battleships) are conjectural. The Tholians may have had the NBB, but that definitely wasn't in the Alpha Octant.

The Seltorian Hiveship isn't a battleship remember, it's an uber shipyard with guns (lots of them)! So that did exist.

That said, your design is good and your graphics are great too. It could go into a "ships that really never were" section which ADB does publish. SFB Module R9 is like this (with a few ships that were actually made, but maybe shouldn't have). In fact, I think that's what module R13 is supposed to be.
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Starsuperion
Lieutenant JG


Joined: 06 Sep 2009
Posts: 80

PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kang wrote:
Well, I meant more that the biggest ships - the ultimate ships, if you like - in each race, are the Battleships. If your drawings are to scale, the Fortress class are even bigger. That was what I meant in terms of fitting in with the existing Star Fleet. Put another way, I don't think that the Feds would ever have fielded a bigger ship than those of the Mars class, for that reason alone.


So if the other races don't have a larger ship then BattleShip size, the Federation wouldn't create one larger.. hmm.. sounds reasonable, but I suppose my pretext for the creation of this design was base don the need to have a large enough ship to battle against the enormous might of the Andromedan Decimator..which I understand is massive!!

the Federation Fortress class would be just slightly smaller then the Condor..so I don't think it would be too huge..

Kang wrote:
The timeline for the General War is available here:

http://www.starfleetgames.com/documents/Timeline.pdf

and if you can find a niche in that structure for your Andro War stuff, then all good luck to you Smile


Awesome Kang!! thanks for the Link, you rock man!! Very Happy I think there is a slot in that Timeline where the Fortress class can be inserted!! suhweeeet!

Kang wrote:
Just because the 'space' does not exist in the current 'canon' (ADB/SFU) Star Fleet, does not prevent you from creating them yourself, and subject to ADB's permission, publishing them!


this is true.. but who is to say that the "space" for such a ship is not open regardless.. I for one would love to see the Federation get a battle ship that is on par in size and scale to that of the Klingons, Romulans, and heck even the Kzinti Battleship is larger..

though the distinction I was trying to make was that this design is classified as Warship, and Not Battleship.. which implies more to the size and scope of the ships itself..

maybe it is time that the Other races like the Feds get a larger class ship called Warship..considering how large the Andro Decimator is, why not?

I would love to publish that on my own, but I would love for it to be part of the SFU/ADB universe 1st an foremost..if it isn't no problem..but I have to try to find how it could work within the current universe..

what is so wonderful is I have people like you helping me to understand that the universe as currently structured..

so if this is to be more of a believable creation and part of the true commissioned ships, then the Romulans and Klingons would have to have a "warship class too?"


OGOPTIMUS wrote:
And also remember that in proper SFU cannon, nobody except the Klingons ever built a battleship. All the designs in module R5 (Battleships) are conjectural. The Tholians may have had the NBB, but that definitely wasn't in the Alpha Octant.

The Seltorian Hiveship isn't a battleship remember, it's an uber shipyard with guns (lots of them)! So that did exist.


Ah so what you are saying is that ultimately the Battleships are themselves not part of true canon, however, yet they are part of true canon with respect to the SFU. So what I see is that the door is not closed.. it is just not open either..

the idea that the federation would create a series of 3 ultimate warships to battle what they perceive is an ultimate threat to the Alpha Octant.. seems like a likely strategy to me.. like in any part of history of Humanity or war, there has always been a tendency to create a bigger and badder warship of some kind to match the enemy..

with the Andros invasion or there after, it would seem likely that such a threat of such a size as the decimator, would spark the need for a large and heavily armed warship to patrol and act as a (weapon of deterrence) to those who would invade or challenge federation territory..

maybe the Fortress class is the last line of defense, the heavy cruiser keeping the inner planetary peace, while the smaller ships patrol the outer realms and if they got past those ships, the Fortress class could hold it's own until the rest of the fleet could arrive..

sounds reasonable from that perspective.. atleast to me..(I can see my having to make a case for this to ADB and Steve Cole)

OGOPTIMUS wrote:
That said, your design is good and your graphics are great too. It could go into a "ships that really never were" section which ADB does publish. SFB Module R9 is like this (with a few ships that were actually made, but maybe shouldn't have). In fact, I think that's what module R13 is supposed to be.


thanks for the compliment.. I am working on doing a colored version..now with all the ships that could have been, I would be interested in seeing them.. it would make for a good read. Not to mention a hope that we may see some kind of expansion of the Federation fleet, to bring it to where it could have gone and yet didn't in the TOS universe..

that is the love of this game, the natural attention to detail, and the evolution of what would have been the classic series had it continued.. as if it were taken the way Gene Roddenberry had have gone in the 1960's had he had 2 more seasons, or more..

I love this game!! Very Happy

By the way, take another look at the image, I modified the ships wings to be straight as apposed to the swept back ones.. it made the ship look even more inline with the technology of the classic federation look..

(PS, OGoptimus, I love your miniature gallery) Cool
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djdood
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll echo the sentiment that your enthusiasm is praiseworthy. I'll add some more information that may help you direct that energy into a way the is more likely to see publication.

One thing you probably haven't come across yet is the late history of the SFU (late General War and after, during Operation Unity).

The Klingons learned the hard way that building battleships is something of a dead-end. They cost so much in resources and yard space that they start to cross the point of diminishing returns. The B-10's were incredibly formidable machines, but they took over a decade to build and in the end, were they more formidable than the number of cruisers that could have been built for the same cost? The Klingons nearly bankrupted themselves trying to find out.

None of the other empires built a battleship, mainly due to costs. Most all of the thought about it and made plans, but nobody else actually committed.

As indicated above, all the other battleships were published in SFB Module R5 and are all conjectural. The SFU has a lot of conjectural ships and units in it (Federation PF gunboats, etc.). These ships are there to support players and player campaigns that want to go off and do their own thing. The "canon" SFU has only Klingon battleships, no Federations PF's (they went with the "third way" instead), etc.

Any additions to the published SFU have to work with Star Fleet Battles (which will inherently make them work with FedCom) as well as with the strategic game Federation & Empire. Both of these games have a strict time-lime and "canon". The conjectural units and just plain weird stuff are partitioned off in unique modules like R9 "Ships That Never Were" and etc., which again, are there for people to have fun with and use in their own home-brew campaigns, but ADB tends to not use them in published scenarios, etc., except in rare cases.

Federation Commander was intentionally set up to not be so strict, but everything in it comes from the other games in the SFU (with an extreme few exceptions). Things almost always get added to SFB first (and when they do, they have to work in F&E).

For "massed firepower", the SFU went the same direction that the Earth's navies did during World War 2 (and the US continued afterward). Carriers, carrying small attack craft (airplanes in the real world, "fighter" shuttles in the SFU) became the dominant force. In the SFU, a fleet carrier with all of its fighters can easily take on just about anything, and it's firepower is concentrated in "disposable" attrition-units that are comparatively easy to replace ("free" in F&E). Replacing a big ship is expensive and tough.

However, in the SFU, as with the modern US Navy surface warfare ships, bigger isn't always better.

As the General war was peaking, rather than build a token few super-dreadnoughts, most empires gravitated to building new "super ships" that used advanced technology on hulls roughly similar to existing classes.

The classic Federation CA was superseded by new much more powerful CX (which had much better power, better electronics, better batteries, more speed, better everything basically). The Klingon D-7 was superseded by the advanced DX. Etc. etc.

Dreadnoughts were not really compatible with the new technology and were swept aside by the X-technology wave. Dreams of battleships were forgotten in the quest to get more X-ships fielded (which had their own construction costs and difficulties). Cruisers, destroyers, and even some frigates were rebuilt, or built from scratch using X-technology. They never completely replaced the legacy GW-era ships (X-ships are expensive and hard to construct) but they definitely took over the difficult missions and "pride of place" in the fleets.

An "X-ship" can completely dominate a "non-X" ship, even one bigger than itself (an X-cruiser could take a GW-era Heavy Dreadnought and give it a really stiff fight and probably take it out, if flown well). The technology difference is that great (imagine being able to put three points of power in every battery box and having engines powerful enough to produce all that power in the first place, just for starters).

When the Andromedans arrived in-force, it was the X-ships that did the heavy-lifting of keeping the Alpha Octant from collapsing under their assault. A Federation CX led the Fed contingent in the Operation Unity fleet to destroy the Andromedan base in the LMC.

There are always studies for alternate ways to solve the same mission/problems, so there would always be things like your Fortress-class being thought about and looked at. Sometimes these concepts get published as "Stellar Shadows" ships-that-never-were, etc. (like the D-18 cruiser which was an attempt to replace the D-7 which went nowhere, or the LD5 early attempt by the Klingons to build a light cruiser, also a dead-end).

The over-all direction the SFU took was set down by SVC a long time ago though and hasn't really changed.
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