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Arming the Orion Dreadnaught
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wedge_hammersteel
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Joined: 27 Sep 2008
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Location: Lafayette, LA

PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 1:06 am    Post subject: Arming the Orion Dreadnaught Reply with quote

My friend, Hod K'el, usually plays an Orion when we get together for our gaming sessions.

My interest in doing the same is growing and I have been looking at the Orion Dreadnaught.

I would like to ask for your opinions on how you would fill the weapon option mounts for this ship.

Its my understanding that the ship is conjectural and if there was one, there would most likely be only one.

I was considering: A/B/C: Photon/Plasma G/Photon; D/E/F: Disruptor/Disruptor/Disruptor; W/X/Y/Z: All Plasma D's

I was also thinking: W/X/Y/Z: All Drones or 2 Plasma Ds/2 Drones

Another question is: Are the weapon option mounts easy to change out? Is that something the Orions would do from time to time? I am sure it could be done to replace damaged weapons but I was thinking for upgrades or due to traveling to a new sector of space and equiping your ship to suit a different opponent you are likely to encounter.
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mjwest
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 3:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Option mounts are meant to show the flexibility of Orion hulls to accept weaponry. However, once a ship receives its weapons (likely when it is being built), it will generally tend to keep those weapons for the rest of its operational life. To change out option mounts requires a full overhaul. For Orions, that just isn't cost-justifiable unless the overhaul is needed for other reasons. It is probably easier to just swap ships somehow.

However, none of that really means anything outside a campaign game. In general, if you can change a ship's option mounts, there will be campaign rules that govern it. In a simpler setup, just use whatever rules you and your companions decide upon.
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JoMc67
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am glad the Orion Dreadnaught is conjectural as I believe small size races ( including Wyn ) should not have anything bigger then say a Heavy Cruiser at best.

Joe
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Sgt_G
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What Mike said. But also, at least in SFB, it would be unusual to mix weapons like that on an Orion ship.

See, there are cartels each with their own region of activity. These typically overlap two (and sometimes three) different empires, so it's possible to mix, say, photons and disruptors on a pirate ship from the region along the Fed/Klingon border. Or mixing photons and plasmas on one that works the Fed/Gorn border. But it's less likely (tho not impossible) to mix disruptors, photons, AND plamsas on the same ship. It would be near impossible to mix Hydran hellbores and ISC PPDs on the same Orion ship. Likewise, it's harder to find Orion ships with cloaks (no pun intended) when they come from the western part of the map (Lyran/Hydran/Kzinti/Klingon "Four Powers" area) because they need to steal cloak tech from the Romulans on the east side of the map.

As Mike implied, if you're building a campaign, you'll want to restrict Orion weapon choices somehow, or they'll become too powerful and break the game.

(Hmmmm ... I have an idea cooking in my head about that ......)
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Sgt_G
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay, typing off the top of my head, the basic idea for Orion weapon availability for a pick-up game goes like this:

Define the home region of Orion pirate ships (Eastern Empires/ Orion home worlds / West - Four Powers region). Select the Orion ships for the fleet. Count the total number of weapon mounts in the fleet (do not count drone mounts). Add the number of mounts on the ship with the most option mounts. If the total number of Orion ships is more than five, add the number of mounts of the smallest ship. Separately, count the number of drone mounts and add one for each Orion ship in the fleet.

Example: 7 ships = BC (4), CA (4), BR (3), BR (3), CR (1), LR (1), LR (1) = total of 17 mounts, plus 4 for largest (BC) and 1 for smallest (LR) = 22. Each ship in this fleet has two drone mounts, for a total of 14 + 7 = 21.

Now, take a standard poker deck and deal out the number of cards per the total above. If the fleet has more than five Orion ships, use two decks (or deal half - record cards - shuffle - deal other half). Cross-reference each card to a table (yet to be drafted) to determine what weapons are “in stock” and thus are available for use. If you wanted a PPD on the BC but did not deal out the King of Clubs, well then too bad it’s just not in stock. Mounts these weapons on the ships any way you wish, within the limitations of rule “5L1” of course. You may substitute a PH-3 for any weapon without limits.

The weapons chart will have three columns (East / Orion/ West) of 52 rows (one per card face). It will be weighted such that the East side will have a higher percent of plasmas & PPDs and lower percent of disruptors, fusions and hellbores. The West side will be reversed. The Orion column will have a fair split of east & west weapons and a higher percent of Photons.

Repeat the above process for the drone mounts. Again, the charts will be weighted such that the East side will have a higher percent of Pl-D, and the West side a higher percent of Drones. The Orion column will have higher percent of ADDs and Phasers.


For campaigns, use a similar process to determine the weapons options available at the start of the campaign. Count the total number of weapons and drone mounts (separately) in the fleet and add one for each CA/BC/BCH (+2 for DNs & Bases). Draw the cards and outfit the ships. Take the excess cards and shuffle them face down, then discard half of them. What’s left are spare weapons in stock. Do the same for drones. Thereafter, you must keep track of repair parts for weapons damaged in combat (run out of parts, you can’t fix the weapon) and weapons acquired (stolen or bought) from the various empires.


Well, that’s the basic idea. Anyone want to comment?
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Dal Downing
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Garth seems like a lot of work just to rework the rules from R8.1. If someone really wants to see that level of detail in thier games I am sure they would consider looking into the SFB Core Rule set to see what the restrictions might be. (Or the MSSB if it ever gets off the ground.)

If not maybe a quick write up for a Communique or Captians Log might be interesting but this is something that I STRONGLY feel should be Boarders of Madness and not even hinted at in the main game. It reeks of having to do Commanders Options Builds before a game and that is going to be a serious drag on Fed Com.

I will have to look after my brain settles down from the drive back from Denver but are the 11 Cartles listed anywhere in Fed Com?
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Hod K'el
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JoMc67 wrote:
I am glad the Orion Dreadnaught is conjectural as I believe small size races ( including Wyn ) should not have anything bigger then say a Heavy Cruiser at best.

Joe


Remember that the Wyn have the PBB (Pocket Battleship)! An awesome little dude IMO; and no one else has one.
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Hod K'el
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 10:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In response to the question, PL-G, PH-G, PL-G, Dis, Dis, Dis, 4 PL-D.

The PL-D are faster than the Drone, absorb more firepower to stop them, and have the same number in a rack. They will add considerably more points to the ship cost. I belive you are looking at 21 points added to the cost of the ship with everything considered. (I'll have to check that.)

If you want to be nasty about it, consider OPT A & D a PPD, OPT B a PH-G, OPT E a Dis, and OPT C & F a Hellbore with OPT W, X, Y, Z as PL-D's.
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mjwest
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do think that option restrictions would need to be addressed in a campaign game. However, I don't think those rules or restrictions are necessary within Federation Commander itself. I really don't think they are even needed in Borders of Madness. So, hopefully, Federation Admiral has address this concern in some way.
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JoMc67
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 4:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hod K'el wrote:
JoMc67 wrote:
I am glad the Orion Dreadnaught is conjectural as I believe small size races ( including Wyn ) should not have anything bigger then say a Heavy Cruiser at best.

Joe


Remember that the Wyn have the PBB (Pocket Battleship)! An awesome little dude IMO; and no one else has one.


That also should have been a conjectural ship as I believe nothing bigger then a CA should be allowed.
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DNordeen
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 5:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whether it's conjectural on not people will use it so what's it matter if it's conjectural?
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Kang
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 6:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DNordeen wrote:
Whether it's conjectural on not people will use it so what's it matter if it's conjectural?

Absolutely. In this game, the ships are there to be used, to be played with. What's the point in buying a booster or Attack module with all those ships if you're not going to use some of them 'cos they're conjectural?

Like some have said, though, it becomes important in a campaign - but only in a campaign!
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ctchapel
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 7:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The WYN PBB is just a overstuffed NCA. The name for it came about long ago before the concept of what a NCA would be, evolved into what we know it as today. It was a CW gifted from the Lyrans that had the typical, non-factory authorizied, WYN modifications.

Charles Chapel
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Steve Cole
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FC doesn't grasp the concept of "conjectural". If it's in the game, it's in the game.

FC also does not have or need "regional weapons limits" like SFB has.
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Kahuna
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for that Steve. Once more, I've been quietly watching the posts on this and weighing out my own thoughts. I like that there are no conjectural units in FC. I've not played the Orion with regional restrictions as of yet. The only restrictions are the rules and usually it makes for some colorful battles. As we don't even have restrictions on races or ships that fight each other, it didn't seem to make sense to restrict the Orion's weapons selections further than the rules already do.
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