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Tugger
Lieutenant JG


Joined: 16 Oct 2009
Posts: 29

PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Oh, one other item as you pick your fleets. I am pretty handy with computers (it is most of how I make my living) so I will volunteer to help get any ships (that I am legally allowed to) into the FCOL library that folks need, especially for upcoming battles. "

Thanks!
I would ask you to also give priority to the races with the fewest classes out there...though I know that will favor the Selts more than me...grin.

I would be just fine with needing to ship EP to an ally.

Also, I think that the costs for Raiders, and Marauding Warships are WAY too low. I would be tempted to hold back, say, 500 EP from my inital build, or to channel all my income per turn, into such ships. If I spend 500 EP, then I get a 2000 pt fleet of Marauding warships, that dont need to worry about moving, they just 'appear' in the right places to engage my enemys fleets, and I am willing to send them in on kamikazi runs, because I just have to kill/cripple 1/2 of my ships value to get a GREAT deal! Spend 500 EP, get a 2k fleet, Cripple your opponents fleet, all in one turn! Or am I missing something? Maybe if there was a limit you could spend a turn, on Marauders and Pirates, or if the cost were more dear...

Tugger
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Sir_Krotar
Ensign


Joined: 18 Mar 2008
Posts: 18

PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think limited raiders is acceptable, but I do not like the idea of marauders at all. I don't like the concept, and I believe it can be gamed too easily.
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Tugger
Lieutenant JG


Joined: 16 Oct 2009
Posts: 29

PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 12:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alternet proposal for Raiders

Each player may allot a % of their inital fleet builds, and save a similar amount of their per turn income, to buy raider ships.

These ships can be Orion, or ships of the owners race, or any race not used. These ships are under Letter of Marque, and do not appear on the stratigic board, can cannot appear in conjuction with any of that players normal fleet ships, nor can they be used within that players territory.

They give the owning player 50% of the normal EP from winning battles, and award full EP if they are defeted in battle. The advantages of the raiders are that they can opperate beyond the limit of supply, and perform deep raids on enemy convoys. (They wont engage normal fleet units, too risky!)

Each turn, each raider fleet (normal fleet size limits) can target a (randon?) convoy in the territory they are assinged to. They have a (50%?) chance of bringing that convoy to battle.

Raiders can be moved from territory to territory, but cannot raid on the turn they are in 'transit'


This gives the players a stake in the raiders. If they lose them, they are gone, and hard to replace. This also limits the amount of raiding action that can go on each turn.

Feedback? Suggestions?

Tugger
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pinecone
Fleet Captain


Joined: 03 May 2008
Posts: 1865
Location: Earth

PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 12:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dread_Lord wrote:
Oh, one other item as you pick your fleets. I am pretty handy with computers (it is most of how I make my living) so I will volunteer to help get any ships (that I am legally allowed to) into the FCOL library that folks need, especially for upcoming battles.

That being said I am a busy man, so I couldn't say that I could get all the ships up in a day (or even a week) but as time allows I will help get them posted.


The two ships I need to complete my fleet are the federation Heavy dreadnaught and the Federation new drone cruiser. Thanks.
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Dread_Lord
Lieutenant SG


Joined: 28 Jan 2007
Posts: 106
Location: Philadelphia, PA

PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 4:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmmm, I guess I wasn't thinking about it like that, but you guys are probably right. Ok perhaps we should remove Marauding Ships.

That still leaves the question of Raids. Would it perhaps be better to remove Convoys and Raids all together as a unneeded complexity? Other then that we would need to limit the raiders so as to not be abusive. We probably don't need to be able to purchase cheap ships that can be suicided into fleet ships, even if they are just escorting the convoy.

Tugger's suggestion also has merit, to give the players reason not to suicide the raiders. Thoughts? Do convoys add more to the game then their extra complexity costs?
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terryoc
Captain


Joined: 07 Oct 2006
Posts: 1380

PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Limit marauders, I'd say. Perhaps limit a marauder to 1 ship. And/or have a rule that Orions operating under letters of marque as convoy raiders must disengage if crippled

I like the idea of convoys, I think it adds to the game, but if it's going to be a hassle I suppose it could be removed.
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Tugger
Lieutenant JG


Joined: 16 Oct 2009
Posts: 29

PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 8:44 pm    Post subject: Rules review Reply with quote

I am going to go through and read all the rules, and look for questions and concerns, but it might take me about a week to do so...I am in a pretty busy phase of job hunting, getting ready for hosting a big Hollyween party, sailing in my first Regatta in a boat that need repairs before I take her out, and all my normal every day life things on top...
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Dread_Lord
Lieutenant SG


Joined: 28 Jan 2007
Posts: 106
Location: Philadelphia, PA

PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So I think that I am going to remove the Marauding Ships and Convoys/Raiders. They are a neat idea I think, but I am afraid that they will be difficult to balance, and I am afraid that they will be a distraction from the real combat. If we make Raiders too good, everyone will use them every turn, making convoys a real pain (who wants to do a convoy mission every single turn). On the other hand without raiders or if raiders aren't good enough to be useful, the convoys are just one more thing to manage each and every turn, and you might as well just increase the economic output of the planets anyway. Besides even if we get the balance more or less right, you will have to divert capital ships to defend the convoys, which is also a bit of a pain. For the record I like Tugger's idea, but I think it might just be best to leave the issue out.

So I am thinking to compensate for the lack of convoys raising the EPs per planet by 5 each. Note you may still want freighters for the Logictis section. Also I will need to resubmit my fleet with the above change
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Andromedan
Lieutenant Commander


Joined: 17 Nov 2006
Posts: 226

PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agreed about the convoys.

On the ship defintion/library issue. Please contact me before you decide to work on one. I most probably have the ship card images and would love to have the help.
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pinecone
Fleet Captain


Joined: 03 May 2008
Posts: 1865
Location: Earth

PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What if every turn someone at random would be attacked by a marauder, increasing in power every turn, up to the point of a BCH?
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Dread_Lord
Lieutenant SG


Joined: 28 Jan 2007
Posts: 106
Location: Philadelphia, PA

PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Right now I am holding off with fleet selections until a question gets answered by Paul. If we need to push back the due date as a result of waiting for that question to be answered that is cool.

Thanks for the ideas about Marauders/Convoys, but I think it will probably allow the game to run most smoothly by leaving them out. You may still want freighters for the Logistics standpoint, or to trade with neutrals though.

Also I am going to remove the rules about moving EPs to build bases. It becauses a bit weird if you are building a base on a planet you own.

Oh, I have built a Fleet version of the Fed Heavy Dreadnought, and will work on the squad level next. If you need ships just email me your requests.
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Tugger
Lieutenant JG


Joined: 16 Oct 2009
Posts: 29

PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I should be able to get a post with all my rules questions together by tomorrow night.

Dread, if you can do the Tartar Med CR for me, that would be great. It would fill a big nitch in my fleet.

Tugger
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Dread_Lord
Lieutenant SG


Joined: 28 Jan 2007
Posts: 106
Location: Philadelphia, PA

PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmmm, a three hellbore medium cruiser..... gee wizz I'm not sure I know how to do that!

Just kidding, yup no problem.
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Tugger
Lieutenant JG


Joined: 16 Oct 2009
Posts: 29

PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 5:06 pm    Post subject: Perfect! Reply with quote

Thanks!
Can I ask, when you have time, to do up the Lancer for me?
With that, and the ships Andro is adding, should do me quite well!

Tugger
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pinecone
Fleet Captain


Joined: 03 May 2008
Posts: 1865
Location: Earth

PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dread_Lord wrote:
Oh, I have built a Fleet version of the Fed Heavy Dreadnought, and will work on the squad level next. If you need ships just email me your requests.


Thanks a bunch DL! And as it turns out, I don't need the Drone cruiser immediately (though I may in the future) so you can push it back on your priority list.
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