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Cloaking-Is it really worth it?
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Cactus Wren
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Joined: 13 Oct 2009
Posts: 8
Location: Mesa, Arizona

PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 3:26 pm    Post subject: Cloaking-Is it really worth it? Reply with quote

I've read the other posts about cloaking and how to defeat cloaking ships.
My question is- Is there really that much of a tactical advantage to cloaking? With energy sparce and races like the Federation and the Hydran closing in to get in your face-where does the cloak come in?
Is it maybe just having the patience of a Romulan?
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Kang
Fleet Captain


Joined: 23 Sep 2007
Posts: 1956
Location: Devon, UK

PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have won battles using the cloak. And would you believe that was against Tholians in an asteroid field. I guess it's just like any other system: it's an option to be used when the opportunity/need presents itself, and not used if the opportunity or need doesn't present itself.

The problem of course is that the Roms/Orions pay a cost in point value to have the cloak, and those points are wasted if you don't use it.

On the other hand, sometimes the threat of a system is what your opponent has to take into account. Maybe your opponent is desperate to get in his strike before you cloak. Maybe he's hanging back in case you cloak. You get the idea. Try to spot this kind of stuff and exploit it where you can.
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Cactus Wren
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Joined: 13 Oct 2009
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Location: Mesa, Arizona

PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 9:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like the cloaking better in SFB. In FC it seems more like a stealth technology.
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Wolverin61
Commander


Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Posts: 497
Location: Mississippi

PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cactus Wren wrote:
I like the cloaking better in SFB. In FC it seems more like a stealth technology.


I agree. In FC the cloak is more like EW or ECM than an actual cloak imho.
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Cactus Wren
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Joined: 13 Oct 2009
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Location: Mesa, Arizona

PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 4:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thats exactly what I'm talking about, Wolverine. Its like flying a more manuverable gorn ship with ECM.
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terryoc
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Joined: 07 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 5:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Historically, the Romulans didn't fight much against the Hydrans, and the cloak isn't really balanced against them. (If you want to die a horrible death, cloak against a Lyran... or an LDR!)

While the Fed likes to get up in your face, your plasma torpedoes also like a close target, so launch as he approaches then cloak out and avoid retribution. Alternatively, as he approaches you can cloak out and "underrun" him (a cloaked overrun). Unless the Fed wants to burn an HET, you will be behind him and able to either open the range to run and reload, or turn and get on his six o'clock.
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mjwest
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Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Posts: 3489
Location: Dallas, Texas

PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To me, there are two problems a cloak must overcome to be effective:
1) Drones. Any drones targeted on the cloaked ship prior to becoming fully cloaked remain on the board. Granted they will only do half damage, but they will most likely hit for that half damage. It becomes incredibly hard to cloak against opponents with lots of drones.

2) Fade-in. With FC's ability to decelerate at will, it is pretty easy to get behind a cloaked ship and just stay there. That means the cloaked ship's opponent can likely set up a "perfect shot" during your fade-in impulse. Avoiding that is difficult.

(I am not including a #3 for ESGs. That's just too obvious. Smile)

Neither of these are insurmountable. But they are major difficulties in effectively using the cloaking device.
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markgeorgetwo
Lieutenant Commander


Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 334
Location: london england

PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 10:40 pm    Post subject: post subject Reply with quote

I have used cloaked ships in battles both romulan and klingon(what pts cost is paid for)
Mr mjwest states 2) Fade-in. With FC's ability to decelerate at will, it is pretty easy to get behind a cloaked ship and just stay there. That means the cloaked ship's opponent can likely set up a "perfect shot" during your fade-in impulse. Avoiding that is difficult.

In the above i allways keep a couple of ships still cloaked to prevent this then the hunter becomes the hunted belive me it is jammy Wink Twisted Evil when i have done this.
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Dan Ibekwe
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Joined: 08 Mar 2007
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Location: Manchester UK

PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 9:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MG2's point is a good one.

One cloaked ship does not provide an enemy with too many tough decisions.

*Two* cloaked ships - or at any rate, more than their opponents, even if they are smaller - can be a right royal pain. You move to mark one of them...and the other (or another) one de-cloaks and torpedoes you. Rinse and repeat.
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pinecone
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Joined: 03 May 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dan Ibekwe wrote:
*Two* cloaked ships - or at any rate, more than their opponents, even if they are smaller - can be a right royal pain. You move to mark one of them...and the other (or another) one de-cloaks and torpedoes you. Rinse and repeat.



Oh man, I flippin' hate that. I remeber one game where I was a Fed BCF against a BH and a WE, and a smaal freighter. I could'nt attck without risking major damage.
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OGOPTIMUS
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 10:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Having a cloaked frigate or two around can really make things difficult for your opponent. It's especially powerful against races with poor turn modes like Feds (who also have restrictive firing arcs on heavy weapons) and Gorns.

I've had to double back against Romulans on more than one occasion.
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Rock Hudson
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Joined: 26 Mar 2008
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Location: Kingston Upon Thames

PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 3:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been playing the Romulans in our local campign for a while so thought I'd share a few things I've found that work.

Firstly, mix up your tactics, don't bubble or bolt and cloak consistently, the second that your opponent thinks they know you're going to cloak, then you'll be in trouble. Keep the swines on their toes!

Secondly, don't plot speed 16 just because you can, speed 0 minus or plus works often, it's very very hard for a ship moving forward to keep on inching backwards in reverse in an idea fighting position, play with low speeds and be patient.

Also against certain races, even those with ESG's cloak at range and really gimp the long range disruptor threat, klingons lyrans etc aren't as nsty when they need range 11 for 2 points of damage on a 1-4.

Finally try to time your attacks so you cloak near the end of the turn, that way your power carries over leaving you much more flexibility on the following one.

The cloak's a funny old thing in FC I personally love it and have had some pretty good success mostly in larger fleet battles (1500 points or so) not really done much dueling or tournament style fights. Drones are a serious issue in large fleets, but sometimes with that many ships you just have to bite the bullet and consider whether you'll get more out of the sacrificial unit or the position the cloak could get you too.
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Kang
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Joined: 23 Sep 2007
Posts: 1956
Location: Devon, UK

PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great tactics - thanks! Put them in for a Command Note; I haven't seen any Cloak tactics threads in there yet.....
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Rock Hudson
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Joined: 26 Mar 2008
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Location: Kingston Upon Thames

PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Kang! I'll see if I can add a few more to them yet, now how do I do this command note thing lol?
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jmt
Lieutenant Commander


Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Posts: 394
Location: Plano, TX

PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Reading over this tends to reinforce what I've see - cloak is not very good in a duel situation, but with multiple ships, it becomes much more effective.

A quick mental review of the scenarios with Romulans (well, as best I can remember) there are often n+1 Romulans for N aggressors. This is especially true for the Eagle series ships.

So, basically, in one-on-ones, the Cloak is not that useful for more than a better ECM/Erratic maneuvering at long range. In multiple ship games, however, the "sneaky hobittiss" really come into their own. Say.. reverse Whack-a-Mole?

jmt
...who usually plays Kestrels rather than Eagles or Hawks.
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