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Did anyone else use Klingon ship Designs?
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DorianGray
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 3:10 pm    Post subject: Did anyone else use Klingon ship Designs? Reply with quote

We all know that the Romulan's bought Klingon ship designs in exchange for cloaking technology (Is this true in SFU lore or just the TV universe? I don't recall any Klingon ships in FedCom having the cloak)

Did anyone else like the Hydrans use Klingon designs like the D7?
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wedge_hammersteel
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Didnt the WYN use Klingon Engines?
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storeylf
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I seem to remember that the Hydrans had a converted captured D7 (or similar).
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Scoutdad
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 3:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Did anyone else use Klingon ship Designs? Reply with quote

DorianGray wrote:
We all know that the Romulan's bought Klingon ship designs in exchange for cloaking technology (Is this true in SFU lore or just the TV universe? I don't recall any Klingon ships in FedCom having the cloak)

Did anyone else like the Hydrans use Klingon designs like the D7?


The Hydrans captured a D7 and converted it to the D7H
The Tholians recovered a F5 rear hull and mated it to a PC to create the TK5 Exile
The Orion Pirates recovered a D6 rear hull and attached it to an LR to create the OK6 Conquest.

The WYN Star Cluster received (bought, traded, etc) several of the smaller Klingon ships (E4 / F5) for use as local defense forces.
The WYN also use Klingon engines on thier "fish" ships produced in the cluster.

As far as I know, no other empire uses Klignon ships / engines / or technology.
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Last edited by Scoutdad on Sat Dec 19, 2009 4:29 am; edited 1 time in total
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DorianGray
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But were those designs ever actually traded for?

If its 1 ship they captured and started using.. well they're not gonna get many more except thru rare conditions in battle. I'm looking for official designs.

Btw what about the design-cloak trade between the Rom. and Klingons. If this is true why aren't there any cloaking Klingon ships in SFB?
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Dal Downing
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DorianGray wrote:
But were those designs ever actually traded for?

If its 1 ship they captured and started using.. well they're not gonna get many more except thru rare conditions in battle. I'm looking for official designs.

Btw what about the design-cloak trade between the Rom. and Klingons. If this is true why aren't there any cloaking Klingon ships in SFB?


No, the Klingons did not trade ships for Cloak in the SFU. Even when the Klingons forcefully aquired/traded three Sparrowhawks for three D5s the Cloaks were removed and returned to the Romulians.

The only Major Trading Partner the Klingons had for ships were the Romulians with a Handfull of small ships being given/sold to the wyn everyone else capyured or stole a ship or 2.
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Scoutdad
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DorianGray wrote:
But were those designs ever actually traded for?

The WYN designs were traded / bought. So those are standard Klignon hulls... built in Klingon shipyards and then sent to the WYN. But the Lyrans and the Kzinti did the same thing with the WYN.

Quote:
If its 1 ship they captured and started using.. well they're not gonna get many more except thru rare conditions in battle. I'm looking for official designs.

Other then the WYN version of hte Klingon frigates, no. No other "official" Klingon designs.

Quote:
Btw what about the design-cloak trade between the Rom. and Klingons. If this is true why aren't there any cloaking Klingon ships in SFB?

Because SFB is based on the Original Series and in that era, Klingon ships did not have cloaking devices.
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mjwest
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the SFU there was no cloak/design trade. In fact, the only reason there are Klingon cloaks in Paramount Trek is because someone made a last minute Romulan to Klingon change in STIII. So, even there the whole cloak/design trade was a retcon to fix their screwup. (If it wasn't a retcon, the Klingons in STI would have used it to try and get away from V'ger.)

In the SFU the Klingons sold the Romulans some ships and warp technology in order to make them a credible threat to the Federation just prior to the Klingons going to war. (Making the Romulans a credible threat meant that the Federation could not mass the majority of their ships against the Klingons; they had to split between the Klingons and Romulans.) Later, additional ships were sent to the Romulans to entice them to enter the General War.

Note that in the SFU the Romulans never actually built any Klingon designs. All such ships were built by the Klingons, sold to the Romulans, and then converted to Romulan technology. Instead of gearing up the production for the Klingon designs, they used the existing Klingon designs as a stop-gap while they built their own new designs.

Also, keep in mind that another reason the SFU Klingons do not have cloak is because it doesn't mix well with disruptors. To use the power-hungry disruptors requires firing them most (if not all) turns. As such, going away to "hide" for a turn or two provides very little benefit. They just aren't worth the cost to the Klingons.
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DorianGray
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you everyone for filling me up on the canon.

Its interesting. Were the Romulan ships just... crappy? Underpowered? In game terms the SparrowHawk and the better FireHawk doesn't seem too bad against their Klingon counterparts.

It's hilarious the Federation considered the standard Romulan Fleet to be so crappy they were not a credible threat. Romulans must have had worse ships than the WYN Fish ships.
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wedge_hammersteel
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When you load the Wyn fish ships with all drones for the option mounts, they are formidible.
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Scoutdad
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DorianGray wrote:
Thank you everyone for filling me up on the canon.

Its interesting. Were the Romulan ships just... crappy? Underpowered? In game terms the SparrowHawk and the better FireHawk doesn't seem too bad against their Klingon counterparts.

It's hilarious the Federation considered the standard Romulan Fleet to be so crappy they were not a credible threat. Romulans must have had worse ships than the WYN Fish ships.


The key point in Mike's statement is Warp Technology and ships. Until the Klingons brokered the deal with the Romulans - the Romulans didn't even have Warp Technology. Sublight ships versus warp capable (even early warp capable) ships was not much of a match-up.
But, warp powered ships, sugmented by the sale of excess Klingon hulls createe another potential invading empire on the Federations eastern frontier. This meant the Federation had to spread it's defense forces to both borders instead of being able to concentrate on the Klingon Border.

As to individual quality of the ships... that harkens back to SFB. The early Romluan ships (WarEagle, Falcon, Snipe, etc.) were originally sub-light ships with warp engines added on like a bolt-on aftermarket hot-rod accessory kit. That were not optimized for the warp technology and therefore were inferior to most of their contemporaries.

The SparrowHawk and FireHawk (as well as the other "hawks") were designed from the ground-up to take advantage of warp engines and are also much more agile than their earlier, "Eagle" type counter-parts.
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Sgt_G
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Regarding sub-light ships, it should be noted that in ADB’s Star Fleet Universe any ship with at least one working Impulse drive engine can travel faster than light speed if there are no enemy ships in the area. If they couldn’t do this, there would have been no way for the Romulans to colonize and patrol their empire. If they couldn’t do this, separated Klingon booms and Federation saucers would be unable to limp their way home after the battle.
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mjwest
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DorianGray wrote:
Its interesting. Were the Romulan ships just... crappy? Underpowered? In game terms the SparrowHawk and the better FireHawk doesn't seem too bad against their Klingon counterparts.

The Sparrowhawk and Firehawk were the new designs I mentioned. They were design and built AFTER getting the lessons from the Klingon technology and ships.

Quote:
It's hilarious the Federation considered the standard Romulan Fleet to be so crappy they were not a credible threat. Romulans must have had worse ships than the WYN Fish ships.

As someone else mentioned, the Romulan ships prior to the deal with the Klingons were all sublight based. Which means they really were not a credible threat. They could do damage, which is why you could not ignore them, but they were not a threat to the Federation as a whole. After getting the Klingon technology and ships, they were a threat.

And the WYN Fish ships are just fine. They are a mid-step between Kzinti and Klingon design. They are very balanced and very tough. They stand up very well in comparison to other empires' fleets. No, they aren't completely overgunned like the PBB, ZFF, and their ilk. However, they are very effective as normal fleet combat units.
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Nerroth
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 11:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

After Kraknora was transferred to Auroran space in the 2570s, the Federal Republic cooked up their Destroyer and DDL designs (using a hybrid Klingon-Federation template) for service in the Auroran Navy.

Not bad ships, either.
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djdood
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2009 12:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gary, you're just going to confuse him.

It looks like he is still absorbing mainline Alpha-Octant empires and the SFU setting as-released in FedCom. I don't think SFB Omega stuff is relevant for him (yet).
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