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Stingers and High Energy Turns

 
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Kang
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Joined: 23 Sep 2007
Posts: 1929
Location: Devon, UK

PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2010 12:20 pm    Post subject: Stingers and High Energy Turns Reply with quote

Stingers can do one High Energy Turn (HET) per game turn.

A couple of questions, then.

1) Does a Stinger, like a ship would, have to announce the intention to perform the HET at the start of the sub-pulse, at the time when a ship would also have to do that (and pay its energy)

2) Can the Stinger then cancel its HET, and if so, is there any penalty for cancelling the HET?

3) Can a Stinger also perform a HET in a sub-pulse in which it is not scheduled to move, as a ship can? I would imagine it can....

4) This is more a question about how other groups do this, but if there is no penalty for the Stinger cancelling its HET, what's to stop the Hydran player from simply declaring a HET each sub-pulse and then cancelling it ad lib? Or do players in other groups simply assume that the Stingers can HET any time they like, without having to declare it?
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terryoc
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2010 1:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stingers follow all the rules for ships, unless otherwise noted in their own rules or the shuttle rules. So the answers to the first three questions are Yes, Yes and I'm not sure about the second part of this question, and Yes.

AFAIK there is nothing to stop a Hydran player from declaring an HET with each stinger in each subpulse and then cancelling ad lib. Except that it wastes a lot of time. Perhaps this needs a ruling from Mike West. Perhaps if it is cancelled it should be lost?
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Dal Downing
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Joined: 06 May 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2010 10:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Stingers and High Energy Turns Reply with quote

We really are going to need a ruling about at what point the HET is commited. Is it at the point it is announced or the point it is actually performed. My view has always been it only occurs at the point it actually happens. So I can start a rolling chain or declare, cancel declare cancel. Its one way I have been keeping my fighters alive longer is making my opponet guess wiether I really mean it this time. As far as the rest of the questions from what i have read... 1 Yes 2 None whats so ever, 3) Yes
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mjwest
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 4:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Terry answered the question correctly. Stingers perform HETs just as ships do, within their own limits.

As such, a Stinger's HET declaration is made at the beginning of a movement sub-pulse, and may be done on any sub-pulse, whether the Stinger is scheduled to move or not. If the HET is cancelled, it does not count as a use of its HET. It would lose the power paid, but, as the Stinger does not pay energy (or movement) to perform the HET, that doesn't matter.

So, yes, theoretically you can declare the use of an HET every single sub-pulse, and then cancel it each time. There is nothing in the rules to prevent that. One would hope that not wanting to act like a jerk would put some limits on this. However, if absolutely necessary, I am more than willing to make a ruling that says that only one HET declaration can be made per impulse. Be aware that if I do such a thing, it will have to be reviewed by Steve, and there is nothing to prevent him from making a much harsher judgment than that.
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Kang
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 8:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I myself think that the easiest way is just to expect the Stinger to HET at any time, without announcement. Or treat Stingers as being under a 'permanent announcement'.

If all players assume that it could happen at any time, then everyone is singing from the same sheet. As long as all players know that a HET could happen, then everything's fine.

Essentially the mechanics of declaration are unnecessary for the Stinger, I think. Although the actual HET is performed in the same manner as a ship, these points make the Stinger HET different from the Ship HET: You don't need to pay for it; it's unlimited use in that you get as many per stinger as there are game turns; and in any case once it's used that turn, you needn't expect another [also unlike a ship, which could perform two or more HETs in a turn].

Therefore, the only two 'game mechanics' reasons for a ship having to announce a HET are, as far as I can see: 1) to commit the power, 2) to 'warn' the other player(s). [Sir, I'm detecting an energy build-up, suspected HET!!]

Simply removing the need for a Stinger to announce the HET would not affect this - it doesn't use power, and a HET is expected at any time. This is far simpler; if you really want a ruling, make it this one: 'A Stinger does not have to announce a HET'.
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mjwest
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have kicked up the question of a potential "fix" for this.

That said, the technical answer for the rules as they are now is that, yes, you may declare and cancel with impunity. If you and your opponent want to reach an agreement that this means you can just HET at will, that is fine, too.

When I get an answer, I will post it. Just be aware that it may take a while, given his need to focus on some other immediate deadlines.
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Kang
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 7:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I see from Communique #49 that Stingers no longer need to pre-announce the HET.

That's it cleared up then; thanks guys Smile
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Hod K'el
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 4:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

But only one HET per turn! Not "to your hearts desire"!
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Kang
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 8:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aye well, it was always that....
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mjwest
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hod K'el wrote:
But only one HET per turn! Not "to your hearts desire"!

No, I said you could declare and cancel to your heart's desire, not that you could actually HET to your heart's desire.

Let's keep things straight! Wink
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