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Federation vs Hydrans

 
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dharras
Lieutenant JG


Joined: 31 Jul 2009
Posts: 47
Location: Bristol, UK

PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 10:17 am    Post subject: Federation vs Hydrans Reply with quote

I usually play fleet scale Hydrans, and the last couple of times I've faced the Federation it hasn't been good for them - the first battle was an 860pt Fed fleet vs ~800pts of Hydrans; (admittedly, it was his first battle against the Hydrans, but he was given advice 'see these stingers? If they are next to your ships and fire, you won't have any ships' when they closed the range to what can only be described as 'close' (doh) there was about 110pts of Federation left vs most of my fleet intact (2 rangers and ~4 stingers gone).

The second battle (fleet scale) LM, DG, RN + 8 stingers vs BCJ, CA and NCA was slightly different (fixed map, 3x2 small hex) - both sides started opposite each other and closed towards each other. Roughly Impulse 6 the fighters were launched, impulse 7 the Feds ED'd, impulse 8 a small amount of phaser (and fighter fusion) fire resulting in some damaged shields to the NCA and BCJ and 2 dead stingers and another crippled.
Turn two had the LM and DG getting to range 7 to the rear of the BCJ and successfully firing 3 overloaded hellbores at it (30+27), and phasers targeting weapons resulting in a mostly useless ship.
Nothing much interesting happened the rest of this turn - the BCJ and NCA veered off one way, and the CA another; the RN and DG recovered some fighters and all the Hydrans set off in pursuit of the CA.
We called it around the first couple of impulses in turn 3 just as the RN with several stingers on board was uncomfortably close to the rear of the CA.

My question is this: Are there any tactics that the Federation can usefully employ against the Hydrans, or is there something that I as the Hydran have forgotten and shouldn't be doing ?
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David
Lieutenant SG


Joined: 08 Nov 2009
Posts: 174
Location: Florida

PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it would be somewhat dependent on whether it is a floating map or not. If it isn't, perhaps the Kaufman retrograde would be useful. It would make it difficult for the Fusion armed Hydran ships, as well as the Stingers to close the distance on the Fed ships. The Stingers and fusion beams are deadly...but they have to get close. If the Feds can keep them out of the kill zone range, they can then concentrate on a specific target and hammer it with combined proximity fused photon torpedoes. If the Hydran has launched the Stingers, take them out first with proximity photons. Without the Stingers he'll have to contend with a stand up alone fight with you ship for ship.

Nothing can be done with the hellbore ships except general reinforcement and there isn't enough of that to last.

If it is a fixed map, I suppose you can at least tie up some of the gatling fire by getting as many drones on the board as possible i.e. scatter packs. I'd still try to kill the Stingers as quickly as possible by concentrated phaser fire just before they get in range. Save the overloaded photons for the ships. Since they have to get close...might as well make them pay for it.

Just a few thoughts.
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Savedfromwhat
Commander


Joined: 23 Aug 2007
Posts: 639

PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are no scatter packs or proximity fuze photons. The trick is going to be playing the klingons game with your feds, using your superior phaser suites to take out fighters early game and wittle down shields mid game. Never let them get centerlined on you as 2 p-Gs is much worse then 1. Just go fast don't burn your bats on preload energy instead save that extra power for phasers don't ol your photons until you have to. ( you realistically shouldn't be firing your phots on the 1st,2nd,or even 3rd turns so you may not want to start preloading until turn 2 instead using that energy for phasers and speed.
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terryoc
Captain


Joined: 07 Oct 2006
Posts: 1378

PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kaufman is useless because you pay double energy to move backwards in FC. Deliberately done that way so it doesn't work.
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terryoc
Captain


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the second battle, why on Earth would you use Emergency Deceleration near Stingers...? Surely the best defense against those little ***** is speed?

If the Feds are facing a mostly fusion fleet, then they have the advantage that they can move at high speed while holding overloaded weapons and the Hydrans cannot hold theirs... running while reloading, while leading to a long game, should help here... The Feds have a slight edge in range, firing at range 3-4 can work for the Feds, but the Hydrans really want to get to range 0, or as close as possible.

With the Stingers, shoot to cripple, phaser-1s will help.

The Feds don't have many drone racks but concentrating launches over a turn break can put out a decent threat to one ship.
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David
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Location: Florida

PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My apologies guys. I'm thinking SFB and forgot this was the FC section Embarassed
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Scoutdad
Commodore


Joined: 09 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also, because of the limits imposed on crippled Stingers - a cripple in FC is as good a kill.

The Fed players in our group will fire one photon at each Stinger as they close. If it hits, the 8 points of damage is enough to mission kill it.
In a one on one duel with a Fed CA against a single Hydran of equivalent points, you can fire one photon at each, then next impulse do it again if either missed.

Once the Stingers are gone, you out-point the typical Hydran by 20% or so, St this point, if you can force him to play your game - you'll most likely win, although it may take a few turns since you probably will need to rearm your torpedoes.
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dharras
Lieutenant JG


Joined: 31 Jul 2009
Posts: 47
Location: Bristol, UK

PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

terryoc wrote:
In the second battle, why on Earth would you use Emergency Deceleration near Stingers...? Surely the best defense against those little ***** is speed?


Speaking as the Hydran, it was unexpected, and did keep the stingers out of close range (I should have kept them onboard for longer in anycase). In fact, the stingers didn't actually do anything other than a few shield hits and soak up fire from the Feds.

Downside of the ED was, it allowed the DG and LM to mission kill the BCJ with the hellbores. Nice trade. Very Happy
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dharras
Lieutenant JG


Joined: 31 Jul 2009
Posts: 47
Location: Bristol, UK

PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Savedfromwhat wrote:
Never let them get centerlined on you as 2 p-Gs is much worse then 1.

This was a fleet scale battle (and fixed 3x2 map), so only one Ph-G per ship. The problem seems to be my dear Fed opponent insists on closing the distance directly and is unhappy when he ends up losing a close-range firefight with both the ships and the stingers... Surprised
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Hod K'el
Lieutenant Commander


Joined: 21 Aug 2008
Posts: 301
Location: Lafayette LA

PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do not play Hydrans, but do they have to pay for their fighters like everyone else, or is the cost rolled into the ship cost?

Why I ask is because the fleets seem unbalanced to me.
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dharras
Lieutenant JG


Joined: 31 Jul 2009
Posts: 47
Location: Bristol, UK

PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hod K'el wrote:
I do not play Hydrans, but do they have to pay for their fighters like everyone else, or is the cost rolled into the ship cost?


Hydran Stinger-2s cost 10 points each.

Hod K'el wrote:
Why I ask is because the fleets seem unbalanced to me.


Federation: BCJ (115) + CA (80) + NCA (81) = 276
Hydran: LM (69) + DG (76) + RN (56) + 8xStinger2 (10) = 281

So only 5 points in it.
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