Federation Commander

[HappyDaze]

I'm looking at the Orions after a few recent games where their excellent Turn Modes impressed me. I'm also really in favor of their PH-1 loadouts after running Hydrans and Lyrans with PH-2s. However, I'm not entirely sure what to take in my OPT mounts.

The ship that stands out in my eyes as a great blend of maneuver, durability (for an Orion), and firepower is the Battle Raider. What are suggest OPT selections for this ship?

I'm tempted to take a PL-S on the A mount (leaving the B mount empty), but the alternative of a PL-G and a PL-F on the A and B mounts seems more useful to me.

Also, I'm not terribly fond of Drones, but I'm not sure the extra PH-1s on the wings are needed. The Drones would add another element to the ship while more PH-1s just improve what it can already do. I don't know who my opponent is likely to be and battles with 2-5 ships per side is the norm, so there could be some massing of Drones.

Lastly, is a Cloaking Device worth the cost? I know it doesn't mix well with using Drones, but otherwise?

[Kang]

Personally, I always like a phaser-G in the mix for any Orion ship. Best in the front option mounts unless you want a 'big' S-plasma there.
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[HappyDaze]

I am considering a plasma boat for 121 points with:
A) PL-G
B) PL-F
C) PL-F
Y) PH-1
Z) PH-1

The alternate for 123 points:
A) PL-S
B) (empty)
C) PL-F
Y) PH-1
Z) PH-1

And for 128 points I can get a longer-range sniper:
A) PPD
B) (empty)
C) PL-F
Y) PH-1
Z) PH-1
(I'm not really too fond of this one because the PPD seems vulnerable being the only Drone hit.)

Also, I don't see it spelled out anywhere, but can an empty WPN or DRN box soak a damage point? I'm pretty sure it cannot, but I figured I'd ask.

How about Ion Cannons? They seem like a fair substitute for Photons, trading some damage for accuracy. They also seem to be more efficient in power when overloaded (2+2 base and only another +2 to fully overload) compared to Photons.

[HappyDaze]

How about this one with no TORP hits for 129 points?
A) PPD
B) (empty)
C) PH-G
Y) Drone
Z) Drone

[storeylf]

A) Ph-1
B) Ph-1
C) Ph-1
Y) Ph-1
Z) Ph-1


All 1 turn weapons.
Good damage-energy efficiency.
Low energy per turn (no temptation to double engine and throw away the stealth and engine boxes)
Decent or better damage at all ranges.
Flexible, good against all comers.
Can run speed 24 and fire all 9 ph-1 each turn.

With stealth and a good turn mode a phaser boat can match anything I can think of in its point range.

[mjwest]

Any Orion worth his salt is gonna want that Ph-G in the mix. It is quite nearly mandatory. Especially on Fleet Scale ships that get a combined 360 arc to put it in. Personally, I generally avoid the Ph-G for most games, though I doubt I would in a tournament.

For a plasma boat, I would almost assuredly take a Pl-G instead of a Pl-S. Quite simply, a Pl-G + Pl-F is just way stronger than a single Pl-S. The Pl-G can quick-load exactly the same as the Pl-S, plus the damage potential of the two plasmas is more than the Pl-S. The only advantage the Pl-S has is range, and unless you are assaulting fixed positions, that shouldn't matter to your BR. Oh, add in the fact that the extra Pl-F is another carronade you get to use. I just can't see any justification for going with a Pl-S over the combination of a Pl-G + Pl-F.

For the Ion Cannon, I agree. Ever since we got the Ion Cannon in the game, I have been itching to give it a try. It would seem to be to be the perfect Orion heavy weapon, with better accuracy than a photon and better crunch than a disruptor. Plus, the hyper-efficient overloads are very tempting, too.

On either of the above ships, I am going to be strongly tempted to use Ph-1s in the wings. Since neither is using hellbores or PPDs, there is no incentive to use the drones for "padding", so you might as well just take the extra phasers (which serve as a sort of "padding" for the other phasers).

So, that's what I would be looking at. Either Pl-G, Pl-F, Pl-F, 2xPh-1; or 3xIon, 2xPh-1.

The one exception is that in a drone-heavy fleet environment, you might want to consider Pl-D racks in the wings. They will let you kill a lot of drones a lot faster than phasers, and will help cover your wing-mates, too.
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Federation Commander Answer Guy

[mjwest]

storyelf,

I gotta say that is the first suggested phaser-boat that did not include a Ph-G I have ever seen. If I am going to take an all-phaser Orion ship, I cannot image not having the one allowed Ph-G.
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Federation Commander Answer Guy

[HappyDaze]

Would it be reasonable to have asymmetrical wing mounts? I am considering going with:

A) PL-G
B) PL-F
C) PL-F
Y) PH-G/PH-1*
Z) PH-1/PH-G*

*If I fly a pair of these, I'll alternate the wing mounts and have one PH-G to each side when the ships are in tight.

[mjwest]

A lot of tournament SFB players swear by asymmetrical mounts. (Though, for them, it is usually a drone/Ph-1 combo.)
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Federation Commander Answer Guy

[storeylf]

[mjwest]

Fair enough.

But, to me, the point of the Ph-G is not actually its offensive potential. It is its defensive potential. A Ph-G is two dead drones (or, when desperate, a chance for four dead drones), and 7-8 points less on a plasma warhead.

The offensive potential is just a bonus.
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Federation Commander Answer Guy

[Kang]

The other thing with the phaser-G on the phaser boat is that it is effectively your only heavy weapon. While Mike is correct about its defensive potential, it is still the only weapon on the ship capable of dealing an overloaded photon's worth of damage, albeit only at close range - but it can be used every turn rather than every other turn. The Orion photon torpedo? Maybe....

Also it's the threat of that damage, too, that is useful. Nobody wants to get too close to a p-G armed ship, even if that weapon is percieved to be ony for defensive purposes
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[storeylf]

[HappyDaze]

I fought a battle against the Orions tonight. The Orions used PH-1s in most of the option mounts and highlighted how silly it is to take anything else. The PH-1 boats are way too powerful for their points considering that getting maximum effect from them doesn't require the Orion to double the engines and thus ensuring that Stealth stays intact. This means that what is undeniably the most efficient weapon in the game (excepting the PH-G at close range) is made doubly attractive for the Orions. This screams broken to me since they can be placed in almost every mount (there are only a few that can't hold a PH-1).

I used Klingons in a 500 point battle, and I was outmatched in firepower, defenses, and maneuverability - I didn't have a single advantage, which makes the point values seem really off to me. Since I know that there won't be any official fix to this - indeed many here will argue that it hasn't changed in 30 years so why change now - this game is probably going back on my shelf and not getting played again. If I do play it again, Orions will be barred from using phasers in non-wing mounts just as we've totally barred the use of the LDR after seeing how abusive they can be.

[storeylf]