Federation Commander

[NeoTanuki]

Hello,

I've never played SFB, but I'm a Star Trek fan and have been very interested reading reviews of Federation Commander. I'm very intrigued by what I've heard and am thinking about trying it out.

However, I have a question: The Romulans are my favorite race in Trek...but my impression from reading these boards is that the Klingon ships are easier to learn and play for a beginner. Plus, I do have to admit, I'm not crazy about the designs of the Romulan ships except the classic Warbird and the KR (the Romulan version of the D7 battlecruiser).

Now, I'd be happy playing either a Klingon or Romulan version of the D7, but perhaps more experienced players can help me decide:

1) Between the D7 and the KR, is one more effective or easier to learn to play?

2) Would you say they are equal in performance, if not what are the strengths and weaknesses of each? (If they're equal, I may just go ahead and try the Romulans!)

3) As a potential new player with no experience, which set would be better to learn and teach other new players with: Academy, or one of the "Border" sets? (My friends and I have experience with light to medium tabletop mini and wargames, but none of us have tried the Star Fleet series of games. And how "teachable" is the game to people with no wargame experience?

4) I have played the old "Starfleet Command" series of PC games, which I understand is based on SFB, and really enjoy them, if that helps. In that game, I seem to have more ability at playing the Klingons, more's the pity...Romulans are cool...

Thanks!

[djdood]

Welcome to the board and (hopefully) to the game.

[NeoTanuki]

@djdood: Thanks very much, that information is helpful!

Hmm...I'm still torn between possible purchases, though. Romulans and Klingons still seem pretty equally appealing.

Let me try another tack with a few follow-up questions:

1) There are different Federation ships in the two "Border" starters, correct? Again, is their performance/play style significantly different between ships?

2) On the Warbird: I understand there are several types of ship using the Romulan classic Warbird hull from the original TV series? Can you tell me a bit about how they play and their strengths compared to the Klingon-hull cruisers?

Sorry for all the questions...I'm just trying to pin down which Empire would best suit my playstyle. It varies from game to game, but I tend to like maneuverability, good defense and some finesse. Most of the time I'm not a "brick" player (i.e. little movement and lots of firepower).

In the old Starfleet Command games, I liked the speed, maneuverability and quick strikes followed by evasion of the Klingons. Does that help any? Do any Romulan ships use this approach?

[pmiller13]

As a die hard Romulan let me put my two cents in.

The ship cards for the Federations are very different from one Border product to the next. This has to do with the time period from the original SFU (star fleet universe) time line and the general war in that time line. Without going in to a lot of explanation basically as the general war progressed the powers came up with what the term 'war' production, which were ships designed for shot combat careers and not long patrol situations. This means that for example a war cruiser has the combat firepower of a cruiser but not the staying power (it can’t take the punishment). In the Romulan Border product the Federation starts to show these types of ships because in the original timeline these would have been the types of ships in production. A smattering of ships from that represent both prewar and war production represents the Gorns and Romulans. The class of ship that you saw in the original TV series in the for the Romulans was either a War Eagle or a Klingon conversion on the D6 which is the Romulan KR. By the way I like the old style Romulan eagle series. The Romulan’s have wonderful choice in that there are three series of ships, the original eagle series, the kestrels (Klingon converts) and their new construction. If you like the idea of the Romulans then go with the Romulan Border box set. You get the same rulebook either way. The difference is in the ships you get. In the Romulan border you get Federation, Romulan and those bastard lizards the Gorn. In the Klingon border you get a set of Different Federation, the Klingon, and Kizinti. But either way it’s a great game and I am you do have to understand I am a Romulan by choice.

[Nerroth]

There are a couple of other things worth noting.


*The Romulans have their own conversions of D7s as well - the K7R. They weren't as common as the KRs, though.

(The addition of the cloak tends to make Kestrels (Klingon-built ships converted by the Romulans) that bit more expensive than their equivalents still flying in the Klingon Deep Space Fleet.


*One other way to try the system out could be to pick up the Reference Rulebook and Briefing #2.

B2 gives you over seventy ships from several empires (Feds, Klingons, Romulans, Kzintis, Gorns, Tholians, Orions, Lyrans/LDR, Hydrans and WYNs) all from the era known as the Middle Years - in other words, the time period in which a certain 'five-year mission' dramatised for trivideo production took place. The ships are somewhat different from those in the General War (and shown in the mainline FC products) but still quite fine for use in the game system. Plus, the Reference Rulebook gives you all the rules you need to fly them.

The only thing (well, aside from the ships not being intended for compatibility with Main Era units) is that B2 has none of the extras the Border boxes give you. No counters, maps, laminated cards or what have you. You can get things like counters and stuff separately, but B2 is something more of a do-it-yourself option if you decide to start with it.

Oh, and the Middle Years Romulan fleet in B2 only has the Eagle (ships with the pre-Klingon hull type) and Kestrel (KR) ships - none of the Hawk series were in service in this era.
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[OGOPTIMUS]

I'll second a welcome.

As djdood stated, the Klingons and Romulans tend to require finesse to play well, which can get frustrating, but if you stick with it, it will pay off.

One route you can go is to download the "first missions" pdf found here. In it you can find the rules to fly a D7 and a federation heavy cruiser. That will at least let you get some experience with one of the empires that you are interested in.

In terms of the two border boxes, the Federation ships included are different, the ones in Romulan Border being from "later" in the war, so they have some flaws corrected from the other ships (slightly better phaser arcs, more power, etc), but the ships from both boxes fly just the same in terms of tactics, since they all have the photon torpedo and roughly equivalent phaser arcs.

I've played both Klingons and Romulans several times, but they aren't my primary races. The biggest thing I can say is that Romulans can be frustrating, since the cloak is a tough system to master, and the long reloading cycle for plasma torpedoes makes me feel rather vulnerable. Tactics often involve medium to high speed oblique attack runs, followed by turning away and/or cloaking to reload.

There are 4 old style Romulan ships: the Snipe, Battlehawk, War Eagle/King Eagle, and Vulture. One thing they all share is the use of armor which is an extra layer of protection after shields. They also happen to have VERY heavy shielding for their size, so they are well protected. The problem is that they can be rather underarmed, with poorer phaser arcs (mostly forward firing) than their Klingon counterparts (though Klingon ships have some of the BEST arcs in the game). They also tend to have worse turn modes than the Klingon ships (again the Klingons have some of the best turn modes in the game).

With the KR and other Klingon built ships, they tend to be a bit underarmed for their cost, having a few less plasma torpedoes than the nice 3rd generation romulan ships (but have good maneuverability and phaser arcs), but suffer from very high cloak costs, making running away to reload a bit harder.

I hope that gives you some of the information you were looking for.
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O.G. OPTIMUS


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[djdood]

[headslap] Geez. I go on as long as I did and I forgot to mention the First Missions download. Good catch Paul.

I'll defer to the other guys on how Romulans fly (since I don't use 'em. I just blow them up when the other guy blows his timing).

As far as preferences for how the ships are put together and how they look, I'm a huge fan of the later (GW-era) "Eagle" series that got mentioned up-thread. The SparrowHawk is one of the most distinctive designs in the game universe. Gorgeous ship and it's stablemates look great with it (take a look at this new Fleet Box cover [url=http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=4151233&id=694832617#!/photo.php?pid=3978823&id=231728653279]HERE[/url] to see how nice they look [link points to Facebook, which may or may not work for you]).

The Federation ship mix in the two border boxes is as-described above. In both, you get a spread of ship-sizes. From tiny frigates (FFG in FC:KB, FFB in FC:RB) up to the massive dreadnoughts (like the DNG in FC:KB and DNF in FC:RB). One thing that sets them apart is two ships: the new light cruiser (NCL) is a long-time favorite for a lot of folks. The strike cruiser (CS) is a more recent addition, which has made a lot of fans (myself included; it's my ride of choice). Both of those are in Romulan Border, instead of the old light cruiser (oCL) and heavy cruiser (CA) [the "tv ship"] seen in Klingon Border.

Which way to go is entirely up to you. You can even use the "... Space" products or boosters to get the ships from the Border boxes, without buying the boxed products, should you choose. To be honest though, I have both box-sets. The extra copies of the reference charts are very handy and I'm of the mind that you can never have too many map-panels (the mixture of which is slightly different between the two box-sets, IIRC).
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[Steve Cole]

YOu can go download FIRST MISSIONS and play the Klingons for free.

You can buy Academy for I think $25 and it has both a D7 and a War Eagle and you can then download the KR and K7R from commander's circle and drive them around the block.
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The Guy Who Designed Fed Commander

[NeoTanuki]

Thanks again for all the responses and suggestions! One thing I am really liking while looking into this game is all the options offered to try it out, including the free PDF, the lower-cost Academy box, and the big sets with the option to buy extras. It's good to have all these options, even if it makes choosing that much harder!

I downloaded the First Missions rules and read through them last night; I was very pleased that the rules seemed surprisingly straightforward. (I've heard stories for a long time how complex SFB was supposed to be, FC seems more around the complexity of Classic Battletech or so on my first glance.) The only part that I found a bit challenging at first was understanding movement, but it suddenly clicked when I started thinking of the base speeds in terms of "Slow" "Full" and "Flank" speeds instead of pure numbers. Go figure.

I suspect I'm going to take the plunge and try one of the "Border" boxes. A local game store that carries FC gives big discounts if you trade in old boardgames and wargames, and I think I have a few that I can exchange to save on costs.

Still can't make up my mind between Klingons and Romulans, but in a good way--after reading the rules and looking at their stats and playstyle, they are both still very appealing for different reasons. I suspect it's going to boil down to which starter set jumps out at me first at the store; or which Star Trek novel I spot on my bookshelf at home next.

Kudos to all of you and Mr. Cole for being so helpful to a potential player/customer; I have to say I REALLY appreciate so many resources being available here and at the website to check out the game before buying. Good approach!

[Mike]

One nice thing about your dilemma is that you don't have to make up your mind.

There are scores of scenarios and you can have fun playing out whichever empire you wish.
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Mike

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Sandpaper gets the job done, but makes for a lot of friction.

[Steve Cole]

The rulebooks in KB and RB are almost identical, and you can download ships from the other one from Commander's Circle.

Also, if you get Klingon Border, you can then buy Romulan Space or Romulan Border. Space costs less, as it doesn't have the duplicated parts like the expensive maps.
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The Guy Who Designed Fed Commander

[Kang]

[djdood]

I used a "gear shifting" analogy (Base 0 is "first gear", Base 8 is "second gear", etc.) to explain it, but whatever works. The "Slow", "Full", "Flank" is certainly more nautical.
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[NeoTanuki]

Well, I tried out my first game tonight!

I picked up Romulan Border yesterday at my FLGS for a 50 percent discount (I traded in some old unused board games for credit). Very pleased with the game contents...not only were the components very good quality, but I was very impressed with the full rulebook. I kept expecting to be confused on things like plasma and cloaking, but it all seemed pretty clearly written. Very nice!

I think I was most pleased with the solo "training" scenarios that gradually introduce you to power allocation, maneuver and phaser fire. This is a great way to introduce a novice to the game basics. To be honest, I felt like I was going through a video game tutorial (I mean this in a good way!) I was able to complete the first "training" scenario of moving and shooting the drones in a very short time (I scored 4 out of 8, using the Federation destroyer, BTW).

I feel that these introductory tutorials are not only helping me get a really good grasp of the basic rules, but will be HUGELY helpful in teaching friends and family the game without them suffering brain meltdown.

I'm quite impressed. I've played and enjoyed many simple games, and complicated games, but I've rarely played a complex game that introduces its concepts in as clear and easy to understand a manner as Federation Commander!

I plan to try out more of the intro scenarios, and then my first duel! I'll probably go for the KR cruiser or War Eagle to see how they play.

Actually, one question: I was curious that the Federation seemed to get a more diverse set of ships (destroyer, light cruiser, heavy cruiser, battlecruiser, dreadnought) than the Romulans (destroyer, destroyer, very light cruiser, heavy cruiser, dreadnought). Was there a particular reason for that? It's not a big deal since I plan to start with 1 on 1 ship duels, but I was curious why the Romulans didn't have a ship in the battlecruiser range (80-100 pts fleet scale?) included. Just curious.

But overall, I'm really liking my first forays into Federation Commander, s you can no doubt tell.

[djdood]

The Romulans and Klingons get considerable additional ships in the Romulan Attack and Klingon Attack expansion packs. The bulk of the Federation ships are provided in the boxed Border products.
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