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Range 0 fire arc coverage?
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Kang
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Joined: 23 Sep 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Surely it's nothing really to do with firing out through a particular shield, because the firing arcs are determined differently from shields. Most firing arcs cover at least two shield facings anyway.

And surely it's better to determine the firing arcs from the positions the ships occupied before they occupied the same hex - which is what has been the underlying theme of all explanations all along.
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Steve Cole
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Firing arcs aren't shield arcs and shield arcs aren't firing arcs. The only confusion here is when you try to insert imaginary rules. The printed rules are clear.

Which shield you are "firing out through" may be of some academic interest but is frankly irrelevant. FA arcs fire through all of 1, and half of 2 and 6.
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storeylf
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bolo_MK_XL wrote:
Quote:
Suggestions that weapon arcs can always be determined by shield facing being demonstably false.


In a way you are correct, but are missing the real discussion (I think most everyone is) ----

Weapons arcs never change, you always know which specific shields they are capable of firing through ---


bad wording on my behalf, the quote I was responding to was;

Quote:
Just as at any range above 0, what shield you have facing an opponet determines what weapons can fire.


That is false. The shield you have facing an opponent does not determine which fire arc said opponent is in, hence it does not determine what weapons can fire.

Quote:

All that you need to determine (for each weapon) is if one of those shields is facing your target ----


Incorrect, my phaser marked R can fire through shield 2 and shield 3, but having shield 2 or 3 facing the target does not mean it can fire.

The assertion made that the rule for range 0 is clear, complete and explicit is false. Forums are not a good place to make such statements, they are likely to be interpreted as also implying you think anyone asking questions is stupid.

The assertion that weapons that can fire can always be determined by the shield facing is false, I will retract that when someone shows me the only possible answer to the question: - (at any range over 0 as above) I am engaging someone who would be shooting me through my number 6 shield can you tell exactly what I can bring to bear. Assume a Phaser (L) and a Phaser (LF) are available.

It follows from the above that the question, what weapons can fire at range 0 cannot be answered by the response that shield facing determines it, as that can only be true if you already know how to determine range 0 weapon arc in the first place.

The only remotely explicit part about range 0 weapon arcs is the weapon arc section clearly showing in the nice diagrams that the ships own hex is in non of the arcs.
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terryoc
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Storyelf? An answer to your question is easy. At range 1, if the opponent is off your #6 shield, BOTH the L and LF weapons can fire. At range 1, the enemy will be unambigously off one particular shield, and ALL weapons which can fire through that shield can hit the target, even if the weapon arc bisects the shield. This is also true at range 0. If a target is in a direct line with the shield, that is it's on one of the six hex lines radiating out from the ship's hex, then all weapons that can fire through the relevant shield can hit that target.
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storeylf
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Range 1 isn't any range greater than 0, it is a specific range. Forget the range beyond the fact that it is not zero. It might be 1, 5, or 25.
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Scoutdad
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I must be the odd one out in this conversation as I really can't understand the confusion. The solution appears intuitively easy to me...

My Kzinti Battlecruiser is in hex 1118, facing B.
Your Federation New Light Cruiser is in hex 119, Facing A.

At this point, your NCL is in my RR arc.
My BC is in your F arc.

Next Impulse, I pay a move point to decel, and you move straight ahead into hex 1118 with me.
At this point, your NCL is STILL in my RR arc.
My BC is STILL in your F arc.

Now, to complicate things... next Turn, we both plot speed zero and stay in hex 1118, but I HET to facing D.
Now, we are still in hex 1118 and my BC is still in your F arc, but I have now turned so that you are now in my F arc as well.

As my daughter's favorite Discney Channel pop sensation would say, "Easy peasy... Lemon squeezey!"
There's nothing complicated about it, nothing involving arcane lore or long-forgotten trigonomic functions. It's a simple issue of relative facing that my kids were able to grasp as early as age 10 or 11...
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Scoutdad
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That was weird... Exclamation
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Last edited by Scoutdad on Thu Apr 30, 2009 3:20 am; edited 1 time in total
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Mike
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 2:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Huh?


(referring to the quote of your own post...)
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Scoutdad
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 3:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike wrote:
Huh?


(referring to the quote of your own post...)

Must be a glitch... I didn't do it. At least, I don't think I did it. Question
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djdood
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 4:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
It was important enough to say twice

Wink
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USS Enterprise
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PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2009 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I must conceed. You are all right. I was wrong.
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