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War By Any Other Name, a campaign for FCOL
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storeylf
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Joined: 24 Jul 2008
Posts: 1836

PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can I check who you will destroy? The side who had little choice but to run in an attempt to disengage (with no map edge, attempting to disengage by distance is the only standard way I believe), or the side who wanted to chase down the defender and prevented disengagement?

Disengagement is important in campaigns, hence personally i'd prefer some form of fixed map (bigger than 42*30 is fine) in order to 1) provide map edges to disengage from and 2) prevent prolonged retreat to force an unreasonable attacker retreat, hence avoiding an overseer getting angry.
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ericphillips
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Joined: 16 Apr 2009
Posts: 702
Location: Los Angeles, CA, USA, Sol, Gould Belt, Orion Arm, Milky Way Galaxy, Local Group, Universe Beta

PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey, Storelf, I PM'ed you. I don't know if you got it.
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storeylf
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Joined: 24 Jul 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ooops- yes, I saw it, was busy at the time, then forgot about it.
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Krellex
Lieutenant Commander


Joined: 30 Sep 2009
Posts: 261
Location: RIS Boise

PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anybody have an objection to going with all fixed maps regardless of terrain?
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storeylf
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Joined: 24 Jul 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mailed my fleet selection.
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mojo jojo
Lieutenant Commander


Joined: 23 Jun 2009
Posts: 340

PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Plasma is better in an Admiral game like this one than a tournament setting because it's great at base assaults. I'm not sure that's enough to compensate for its weakness in regular combat vs direct fire empires.
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storeylf
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Joined: 24 Jul 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Personally I was thinking plasma coupled with tholian web casters is lethal. Run all you want - once you've got through the web (by which time you are plasma toast).

In fact I can hardly beleive that I'm the only person with tholians as secondary - web casters backing up any fleet is lethal, but plasma races seem to especially benefit.

Of course the Tholina primary player is going to be scarily nasty - 750pts buys a lot of web casters, its going to be hard ever seeing a tholian ship n that fleet.
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JimDauphinais
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Joined: 22 Nov 2009
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Location: Chesterfield, MO

PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 12:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are the normal Neo-Tholian and Web Caster ship purchase restrictions not in play?
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St. Louis Area Fed Comm Group: http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/STL_Federation_Commander/
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storeylf
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Joined: 24 Jul 2008
Posts: 1836

PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 7:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not aware of any 'normal' restrictions, have I missed something (I've never played tholian before and may well have missed some rule?

There are certainly no restrictions in the campiagn rules


Last edited by storeylf on Thu Oct 07, 2010 3:04 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Krellex
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Joined: 30 Sep 2009
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Location: RIS Boise

PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are there webcaster restrictions in FC?
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mojo jojo
Lieutenant Commander


Joined: 23 Jun 2009
Posts: 340

PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

4Q1e. No more than 1/3 of the ships in a force can be Neo-Tholian and no more than 1/2 the ships in the force may have WC.
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storeylf
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Joined: 24 Jul 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aha - that means I'm ok, most of my ships being hydran. That rule mainly affects the tholian primary player.

[edit] though I might have to recheck my individual fleets tonight to ensure that I didn't distribute more WC ships to an individual fleet than allowed.

MM, does that mean that a neo tholian ship can't be on patrol without at least 2 other ships, need to check that as well tonight?
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mojo_billbo
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Joined: 07 Mar 2010
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Location: Danville, PA

PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Krellex wrote:
Anybody have an objection to going with all fixed maps regardless of terrain?


I liked fixed maps better, to be honest.
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patton_71
Ensign


Joined: 24 Sep 2010
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 9:25 pm    Post subject: WC ruling Reply with quote

Not surprisingly, I have some concerns about limiting the Web Caster.

The entire rule is as follows:

"(4Q1e) Fleet limit: There were very few Neo-tholian ships (a total of 12) and the Tholians could not build any more of them. The Tholians never risked all of the ships in any single battle. When players are allowed to select whatever ships they want (up to some point total), no more than 1/3 of the shipscan be Neo-Tholian, and no more than half of the ships in the force can have web casters."

This is interesting because apparently the Tholians were able to produce web casters or you would never see ships like the CAW or the improved DN (webcasters on PC-Based hull designs)

As this is clearly a 'storyline' rule, and this campaign is certainly ahistorical in the SFB context, having no real connection to the SFB universe, I do not believe it should apply. Besides, if you follow the 'storyline of the campaign', the Masters are bored, they certainly would not object to seeing a Neo-Tholian fleet. When you have not only simulator races in play, but a Klingon-Fed team, any claim made to maintaining a 'historical' flavor is on thin ice indeed.

Secondly, and more importantly, changing a rule regarding a particular race after the races have been selected isn't fair play in my book. Krellex has already addressed any "Tholian special rules" in the campaign rule set already, and if he wished to make a WC restriction at that point, then it would have been made known through the rules. This is a different argument than a global rule such as fixed vs floating maps ( i prefer a 3x3 fixed map myself...a single map can be a bit crowded at times). That does not target a specific race. Limiting a weapon does.

But, I will comply with the decision of the ref, I just thought I should get my $.02 in. Just let me know soon, I may need to readjust my fleet build...
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storeylf
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Joined: 24 Jul 2008
Posts: 1836

PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 9:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What about PPDs?

Whilst I hadn't spotted the rule before, I would certainly expect to follow it given it is a standard rule, I would expect any rule from the FC rulebook itself to be applied.

No one has changed any rule after races were choosen, the rule was in the rule book before you choose. Nothing about the campaign rules for tholain defenses imply in anyway that they overrule that.

Unless you were like me and actually hadn't spotted the rule I would be a bit concerned that you had planned fleets not complying with that rule, when other players would almost certainly be assuming that you were compliant with any standard rules out of the rule book (if I had been caught out I would have seen no defense and just apologised for the oversight and removed offending ships).


[edit] and lets face it, the WC restriction, like the PPD or orion option mounts rule restrictions may be couched in 'story'/'history' terms, but they are there for game balance reason. Massed ISC PPDs, Orion PhGs or Tholian WCs are quite simply unbalanced.
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