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War By Any Other Name, a campaign for FCOL
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patton_71
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Joined: 24 Sep 2010
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

per the campaign rules:

Fleet Composition: A fleet can be one or more ships that moves on the campaign map and carries out orders. Up to 33% of your total EP spent on ships may be used to buy ships from the secondary empire. No fleet may have more than 750 points worth of ships. For every ship with Move Cost of 1.0 or greater that is purchased, you must also purchase a ship with Move Cost 0.5 or less. (Not including freighters, etc, it must be a “War ship”). Any Excess MC 1.0+ ships which lose their MC 0.5- escorts can issue no orders except movement towards a friendly base where they will take delivery of replacement escorts. If this does not occur before an evaluation turn (3, 6, 9 etc) the ships missing their escorts must be scrapped. It is a good idea to have some extra escort ships in the fleet. For every three ships in a fleet with MC less than 1.0, you must have a MC 1.0 + ship to lead them. (No building fleets with 15 Frigates, or other silly things like that!) The Overseer has final say in what constitutes a legal fleet. Do not tempt his wrath.

The last 2 sentences are they key.

However, as any reasonable person would conclude that these rules would override any other applicable rule found in SFC for the purpose of the campaign.

Your argument regarding the Orions is irrelevant for 2 reasons: First, they are specifically barred from selection as a race in the campaign; Secondly, the specific option mount allowances listed for each ship in section 5L define clearly what is allowable. You are comparing individual ship limitations to fleets..apples to oranges.

As I look in my Reference rulebook, section 4M does not limit PPD's (nor does the rules update of 12/2009, which is the lates one i can find). If there is a rule somewhere i may have missed, please enlighten me Smile
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ericphillips
Commander


Joined: 16 Apr 2009
Posts: 702
Location: Los Angeles, CA, USA, Sol, Gould Belt, Orion Arm, Milky Way Galaxy, Local Group, Universe Beta

PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 11:26 pm    Post subject: FIXED MAPS Reply with quote

I am also putting in a vote for fixed maps. The advantages are having a proper "finish-line" to disengage. More important to me is that FCOL doesn;t really handle floating maps well. You need to drag too much around.

I would like to have a nice square map, however. 50x50 hex, maybe?
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Krellex
Lieutenant Commander


Joined: 30 Sep 2009
Posts: 261
Location: RIS Boise

PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 3:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, fixed maps it is. I'm thinking 50 by 50 should be just about right.

I will need some time to ponder the Webcaster, but I am hesitant to make drastic changes since empires have been picked.
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mojo jojo
Lieutenant Commander


Joined: 23 Jun 2009
Posts: 340

PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 3:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

patton_71 wrote:
As I look in my Reference rulebook, section 4M does not limit PPD's (nor does the rules update of 12/2009, which is the lates one i can find). If there is a rule somewhere i may have missed, please enlighten me Smile


The reference rulebook 4M rules are playtest only. The War and Peace 4M1 rules state that no ISC fleet can have more PPDs than ships.
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patton_71
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Joined: 24 Sep 2010
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 3:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks mojo
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storeylf
Fleet Captain


Joined: 24 Jul 2008
Posts: 1879

PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 7:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The campaign rules don't appear to supplant any other rules, they just seem to be ensuring that we actually use a range of ship sizes. I disagree that any reasonable person would think the override the FC rule book, they add to them, not supplant them.

I realise we arent using orions, but the point being that there is no logical reason beyond balance as to why orions are limited in PhGs and ISC are limited in PPDs, the same with WC, it may be a 'story' excuse, but its ultimatley because mass WC is unbalanced.

If Krellex wants to say the standard rules don't apply then thats clearly for him (and I am not trying to tempt his wrath, just pointing out that everyone has a reasonable expectation that any rule in the FC rule book applies if it wasn't explicitly ruled out, even though I missed the rule I fully realise that others would reasonably have expected me to be aware of it and be following it). As that would be a change to the rules after the races are picked (there be no reason to suppose that any FC rule was not previoulsy being applied) then maybe every one shoud get to at least re-pick races if they wish, so that people can reconsider how they are going to deal with so many web casters (Selts or counter tholians being the obvious) or rethink whether they want to bid for tholian themselves.

{it wouldn't affect my choice, not realising there was a restriction in the first place, but I might take the oppotunity to rethink taking a plasma race Smile}

For myself, getting rid of the WC restriction is of some benefit to me, I was looking at building a small NeoTholian fleet myself, but I don't think it is fair on the other players who may have been aware of the rule before and assumed it applied.


At least it has come up now, rather than on turn 4 or something when someone finds them self against a fleet they didn't think possible. Smile

As for fixed maps, 50* 50 is ok.
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storeylf
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Joined: 24 Jul 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

On a seperate aspect, anyone interested in arranging a practise battle on FCOL, I could probably do with a couple of games using stingers and webs on the client.
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Krellex
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Joined: 30 Sep 2009
Posts: 261
Location: RIS Boise

PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 6:12 pm    Post subject: Fleet builds deadline! Reply with quote

For those that have not sent in their initial fleet builds, I am giving you until Sunday night the 17th.
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Krellex
Lieutenant Commander


Joined: 30 Sep 2009
Posts: 261
Location: RIS Boise

PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 9:18 pm    Post subject: Tholians ruling Reply with quote

Ok, here is what I have decided for the Tholians. For every webcaster equipped ship in a fleet, there must be a non webcaster equipped ship.
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Krellex
Lieutenant Commander


Joined: 30 Sep 2009
Posts: 261
Location: RIS Boise

PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 1:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One rule clarification/update: For any ship in a fleet that is move cost 1 or greater, you must also have a ship that is less than move cost 1. The rules state .5 or less, this is not correct. Just wanted to clarify that.

Also, fleet builds deadline I am extending until Wednesday the 20th.
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storeylf
Fleet Captain


Joined: 24 Jul 2008
Posts: 1879

PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 8:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Krellex wrote:
One rule clarification/update: For any ship in a fleet that is move cost 1 or greater, you must also have a ship that is less than move cost 1. The rules state .5 or less, this is not correct. Just wanted to clarify that.

Also, fleet builds deadline I am extending until Wednesday the 20th.


Ahh, As long as I get it back in on time do you mind if I resubmit - that update might well alter my choices (or it might not, but I'd like to check/rethink based on that update).


Last edited by storeylf on Fri Oct 15, 2010 8:48 am; edited 1 time in total
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storeylf
Fleet Captain


Joined: 24 Jul 2008
Posts: 1879

PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 8:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And can I have another clarification.

1/3rd the EPs may be spent on secondary empire, is there any limit on a fleet level, or could you run a pure secondary empire fleet with whatever ships you've bought, I'm reading it that you can but would like to clarify that.
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Krellex
Lieutenant Commander


Joined: 30 Sep 2009
Posts: 261
Location: RIS Boise

PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You may resubmit if you want to. That goes for anyone. And yes, you can stack all your secondary empire ships in one fleet if you so desire.
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storeylf
Fleet Captain


Joined: 24 Jul 2008
Posts: 1879

PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 10:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I've played a couple of face to face practise games with my hydran/tholian against fleets representing my neigbours (selt/wyn, and Kzin/frax). Game 1 was with fleets of a bit over 400pts, and game 2 was around 540pts.

My opponents have been playing the battles as though in a campaign, and this has resulted in a distinct lack of ships being destroyed with my opponents disengaging off the map as soon as things went south and looking unwinnable for them. Theres been a few crippples but not much else.

I'm quite happy with how things have gone and think it could make for an interesting campaign, but I'm posting in case anyone is wanting more bloodthirsty battles. If you do, I think the map will need to be larger .

Anyone else got any thoughts, or played any practise games on a 50*50 map and have any comments.
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Targ
Lieutenant SG


Joined: 02 Nov 2006
Posts: 125
Location: York U.K.

PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I’ll be watching this thread with interest for Two reasons:
1; I along with Capt’n Jack are storeylf sparing partners
2; I really like some of the campaign rules.

As far as the size of the battle map is concerned after the last two simulations we have played I do think it should be bigger. As we found it too easy to disengage, in one case a piece of wreckage with a bridge managed it due to momentum. After some discussion we were talking of 70x70. I hope no offence is taken by a simple simulation control office sticking his ore in.

Good luck to all.
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