Federation Commander

chazrobbins · Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 11:05 pm Post subject: Question about Tractor Rules

Here's the situation: My Federation DD is in the same hex as a Klingon D5W and D7D. In the Other Systems phase my DD declares a tractor on the D5W, which cannot duel because it is out of power. The D7D then - in the same phase - declares that it will tractor the DD. The DD does not contest the D7D tractor since it is saving its last points of power to finish off the D5W.

Question: Does the tractor from the D7D on the DD break the tractor from the DD to the D5W?

The other players in my game insisted that the tractor was broken and the D5W was able to get away, and I didn't look this up in the rule book. When I did look this morning, I found Rule 5D6e in the Reference Rulebook which states

"Enemy ships held in tractor beams have no penalties or restrictions regarding their ability to fire weapons, launch shuttles or seeking weapons, or use their systems."

I can find no other rule contradicting this.

Did I let myself get robbed last night?

Chuck
Game Empire
Pasadena, CA

Scoutdad · Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 1:07 am Post subject:

(5D5c) takes effect in a three ship tractor situation:

(5D5c) If ship A (D7D) tractors ship B (DD) which has already tractored ship C (D5W), a tractor auction is held and only the stronger of the two beams survives. In this case, ignore negative tractor used by unit C (D5W). Ship B (DD) could use negative tractor against Ship A (D7D) or increase the strength of its tractor hold on ship C (D5W) with equal effect. Ship B (DD) wins any ties.

If the D7D only spent one point of power, then the DD maintains it's tractor on the D5W as the tractor auction is a tie. If the D7d spent two points or more of power to tractor the DD, then the DD must use a corresponding amount of power to maintain parity in the tractor auction or allow the D7D's tractor attempt to supersede the DD-D5W tractor.
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mjwest · Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 3:38 am Post subject:

scoutdad nailed it.

(I took the liberty of fixing a couple typos in his post to make sure it was perfectly clear.)
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Kang · Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 6:01 am Post subject:

But if it had been a ship using negative tractor to defend itself from a tractor attempt, with an amount of power equal to the tractor, the beam would have been broken.

Does that mean that in order to perform this 'releasing tractor' - the D7D tractoring the DD, in this case - the 'releasing' ship has to use more power than the DD tractoring the D5? It seems to me that this is the case, from what you've said.
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Scoutdad · Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 1:04 pm Post subject:

mjwest · Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 3:29 pm Post subject:

The new tractor must always be more than the defense.

In effect, an existing tractor counts as negative tractor. So, if our DD is holding another ship with a tractor, the enemy D7D must exceed that power total to establish its tractor and thereby break the DD's tractor.

If the DD has a three point tractor on its target, or it has a one point tractor and two points of negative tractor, or even if it doesn't have a tractor, but has three points of negative tractor, the D7D must put four points of energy into the tractor to overcome the energy the DD is using.

It is consistent. Even with a single tractor attempt and the target only using negative tractor, the tie goes to the target.
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m1a1dat · Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 8:23 pm Post subject:

I missed that before " Ship B wins any ties" i always thought that there had to be a stongest tractor for any tractor to be established. So if positive tractor power being equal then whoever first announced the tractor wins? So be quick in announcing you are going to tractor somebody then.

Chuck, even if i was wrong about it Nicole's D7D still had enough excess power available to overcome your tractor and still do all it did.

mjwest · Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 8:45 pm Post subject:

Whoops!! I missed the whole "in the same phase" thing.

(5D5c) only applies if the first tractor was already in place when the second tractor attempt is made. In that case, since the first tractor was pre-existent, the defender wins on a tie.

However, if the D7D and the DD were trying to engage a tractor simultaneously (i.e. in the same Other Functions phase), then it is effectively just a normal tractor auction as described in (5D5b). (While (5D5b) talks about two ships trying to tractor a single object, this case fits, too.) In this case, a tie results in no tractors for anyone. You must *win* the auction to establish the tractor.

Either way, what a tie really means is that the status quo remains. Whatever tractors were in place prior to the new attempt remain (which is possibly none).

So, since I misread the original question, let me re-answer. The answer is that, since the tractors were attempted in the same phase, the D7D merely needs to tie the power in the DD's tractor attempt to block the DD's tractor. However, it must still exceed the DD's tractor power to establish its own tractor to the DD.

I apologize for not reading the original post correctly.
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chazrobbins · Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 9:50 pm Post subject:

Thanks to everyone for clarifying this. My DD was subsequently destroyed, so now I know I can Rest In Peace.

Chuck, Former Commander of the USS Muerto

chazrobbins · Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 9:51 pm Post subject: