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Looking for old style of Fed OCL
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philgore
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Joined: 16 Dec 2009
Posts: 18
Location: Prairie Village, Kansas

PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 3:54 pm    Post subject: Looking for old style of Fed OCL Reply with quote

If anyone has any of the old style Federation Old Light Cruisers with the detached engines, I would be very interested in buying or trading for them.
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Bolo_MK_XL
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Joined: 16 Jan 2007
Posts: 791
Location: North Carolina

PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have 1, in the old blue package --

Have to look and see what I need for a trade --
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philgore
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Joined: 16 Dec 2009
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Location: Prairie Village, Kansas

PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 1:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd be glad to get partially finished/assembled models, they certainly don't have to be new in blister.
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djdood
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Joined: 01 Feb 2007
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Location: Seattle, WA

PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 3:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unfortunately, I used the 3 I had to make the master for the oCA.

I end up with old SL2200 oCLs when I buy minis lots on eBay. Would this be an ongoing desire of yours or something near-term?
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philgore
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Joined: 16 Dec 2009
Posts: 18
Location: Prairie Village, Kansas

PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 8:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ongoing I'm sure. If you end up with any, I'll gladly buy or trade for them. Since I have a hobby store that specializes in games and miniatures, I'm sure to have something that might interest you.

My long term goal is to have about a dozen total, so this will probably take a while. I started a thread on the forum last December regarding the older models and even exchanged a few emails with ADB to see if they could spin the old molds for me, but nothing ever came of it. Crying or Very sad

I've acquired the two oCL's needed for a scenario I'm currently working on. One will be a Diplomatic Corp ship and the other a Cadet cruiser. I'll post pics as soon as they are done.

My most sincere thanks to Mark aka "Bolo_MK_XL" for giving me the oCL for the Diplomatic Corp ship. He is a first class fellow.
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djdood
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Joined: 01 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 12:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I come across more, I'll mention it here.

Personally, I'm always searching for old 4-piece Klingon D-hull minis. In the process, I tend to acquire Rom Snipes (old War Birds), Fed oCLs, and lots of Orion Salvage Cruisers (for some weird reason).

I was part of a group trying to pre-pay for a new run of 4-piece D-hulls a year or two ago, but nothing came of that either.
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Starfighter Decals
Lieutenant JG


Joined: 04 Feb 2008
Posts: 66

PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I could get the old stuff re-popped IF I could get permission to do it from the powers that be. However, it would be in resin and not metal. Metal is a poor medium to work in to begin with and now even more so because of the cost and availability. I can do so much more in resin (Making clean-up a snap and restoring the lost details from the old lead cast versions) and it would be cost effective. If that's a deal breaker, then so be it.

Choosy beggars will always be found wanting...

If there is interest making this happen, you folks know how to contact me.
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Bolo_MK_XL
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Joined: 16 Jan 2007
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Location: North Carolina

PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have 3 of the old D-7s, still in package for someone thats won the lottery --

Probably hold on to them till I need retirement money Smile
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philgore
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Joined: 16 Dec 2009
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Location: Prairie Village, Kansas

PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 3:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This particular range of models is the only line that I know of that did not improve with age. Laughing I understand most of the reasons for this, but it so weird to be looking for 25 year old models that are manufactured better than their modern equivalents. I guess it makes me appreciate the classics all the more.

Perhaps some day the 3D models used in the art might get printed and cast. I for one would replace most of my collection if that happens.
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djdood
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 8:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually, some of the current minis are 3D-printed computer models.

All of Todd Boyce's "sculpts" are done that way (all the fighter minis, drones, plasmas, etc.). Some of the more recent Lyrans were done that way as well. I also believe the current (larger) Romulan War Eagle was 3D-printed (it has the telltale step patterns).

In other cases, the old-school techniques are still being used. In particular, all of my sculpts (except one) are highly modified versions of existing SL2400 minis, so they only have the detail the source mini had, plus some generational-loss (although I do my darndest to mitigate that).

I do 3D computer modeling for a living, but I've yet to do it for minis. Kind of ironic.

I think there will be more and more of it, as time goes on, but right now it is still pretty tricky to get right. The modeling has to be done a specific way ("water-tight"), which is counter to normal "just has to look right" practice. 3D CAD guys like me have a leg-up in this, compared to the visual-effects guys.

The file formatting and export is also fraught with unpleasant gotchas (every modeling app seems to export STL files a little differently, and every STL "grow" control software seems to want the file in a slightly different flavor). I had no shortage of fun with this having grows done at work and I've read about some expensive and frustrating do-overs in the minis production world.
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Starfighter Decals
Lieutenant JG


Joined: 04 Feb 2008
Posts: 66

PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

philgore wrote:
This particular range of models is the only line that I know of that did not improve with age. Laughing I understand most of the reasons for this, but it so weird to be looking for 25 year old models that are manufactured better than their modern equivalents. I guess it makes me appreciate the classics all the more.

Perhaps some day the 3D models used in the art might get printed and cast. I for one would replace most of my collection if that happens.


Yes, it is too bad. The 3D plotted stuff is awesome and shows what can be achieved. Nothing beats a truly handcrafted replica, which is why the old SL2200 stuff holds up so well almost 30 years later.

I can improve some of the current stuff quite a bit if I was given the opportunity to remaster them to be cast in resin. I'm sure I'm not the only one. I know quite a few of us lobbied SVC until we were blue in the face to make this happen, just to get stonewalled. It would be great to make some of the old girls look like Starship Models again. The metal spin casting and insistance on 1 piece castings puts many limits on the masters craftsmen. And IMHO, cost sales over the long haul by making the ships look so bad. It's to the point now I won't buy any SL2400 until I can inspect it for casting flaws and mistakes in the master that are to obvious to be ignored or fixed. At one time SL2200 was the "gold standard" for Starship Minis. They were little scale models. Now, for the most part, they are 3D Game counters that you can paint & detail if you want to.

I would love to see them appeal to Scale Modeler crowd again. Not everyone who bought them plays games. But they refuse to take SL2400 line seriously because of the 1 piece molds, detail destroying "retooling" to 1 piece castings, and the limits of casting in metal puts on the folks making the masters.

But it's not my company, so all I can do is comment and vote with my wallet.
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Dan Ibekwe
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Joined: 08 Mar 2007
Posts: 452
Location: Manchester UK

PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd certainly be interested in remastered SL2200 multipart Klingon D7s, Fed oCLs and Kzinti CS and CV classes. I can understand that SVC grew tired of continual 'I can't glue stuff together' type moaning from the less dextrous elements of the fan base, but I'd have to agree that quality has suffered as a result of the 'one piece' policy.
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philgore
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Joined: 16 Dec 2009
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Location: Prairie Village, Kansas

PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As a retailer, I know it costs ADB in sales of models. It is difficult to see the incredibly up to date FedCom that was made for the modern marketplace have a less than modern miniature component. In every demo game I run I get "wow, great game!" and then the "ugh, what else can I get" response to the minis. Please don't take this the wrong way, I personally own the entire line of FedCom minis and stock the full range in my store, but the small fortune I've spent acquiring earlier era models is lost revenue for ADB.

Retailer anecdote : We stock the full range of Spartan Games ships in the same section as the ADB models. When customers approach the section, ADB products are the first thing they pick up, as the packaging and presentation is excellent. They then turn the package around, see the back, and either put them back on the shelf or ask if I have them on display in one of the cases. If they look at the display, they see ADB painted models right next to other brands, and then go back to look at other lines. In the war of "Oh! This is cool!" ADB is at a clear disadvantage from the lower quality.

If they play in a demo for space ship games, FedCom is usually the winner, though the ship models prove to be a difficult sale as our much of my
customer base are avid modelers.
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Bolo_MK_XL
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A huge bomb was placed in the "Quality" mini market by safety concerns that forced manufacturers to switch from Lead to that Awful concoction of mixed metals --
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djdood
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Joined: 01 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes. Lead holds detail much nicer.

In a few cases though, the newer metals are better. Sharp corners, small parts and things like booms benefit from the less ductile metals (they don't get bent or dented as easily as lead).
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