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SFB cost effectiveness comparison

 
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captaincf
Lieutenant JG


Joined: 03 Apr 2011
Posts: 38

PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 12:51 pm    Post subject: SFB cost effectiveness comparison Reply with quote

SFB is not a cheap game. But compared to some other games it is actually a much better deal, for the following reasons:

1. Play right out of the box. The basic set is about average for a basic box set, but you can play right out of the box and have several options to do so. Also, this not a simplified version of the rules, this is the full game. Advanced Missions and others are merely add ons.

2. You do not need the other books, but they add to the play options. Other games, if you do not buy the "add ons" you cannot play.

3. When you do buy and add on, you get everything you need to use it right away.

This is my observation. Does anyone agree? Disagree? Why?
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wedge_hammersteel
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Joined: 27 Sep 2008
Posts: 581
Location: Lafayette, LA

PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree.
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Darkwing
Lieutenant Commander


Joined: 23 Oct 2010
Posts: 249
Location: ZZ 9 plural Z A

PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 12:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree. It's great that you can purchase the parts of the game you want and not purchase the ones you don't.

You want Romulans and fighters but not PFs and Andromedans? Get Modules R4 and J, but not Modules K and C2. It is totally customizable.
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Blammo
Lieutenant SG


Joined: 01 Mar 2011
Posts: 170
Location: Barnesville, GA

PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 1:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree, but I always found this game very addictive....there were times I would balance my budget based on what the next SFB item I wanted to get would cost me. Laughing Laughing Laughing
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captaincf
Lieutenant JG


Joined: 03 Apr 2011
Posts: 38

PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 4:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blammo wrote:
I agree, but I always found this game very addictive....there were times I would balance my budget based on what the next SFB item I wanted to get would cost me. Laughing Laughing Laughing


That was me before marriage and children.
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gambler1650
Lieutenant JG


Joined: 30 Mar 2009
Posts: 71

PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I tend to think a bit 'bigger' as far as what I feel the core of the game is. In my view, it's Basic Set, Advanced Missions and C1. Part of this is because of some of the rules in Advanced Missions (mid turn speed changes, etc) that I consider to add so much to the game that I don't want to play without them, and part of it is because I love how Hydrans and Lyrans interact with each other and with the Klingons and Kzintis from the first two sets. I also really like C2 because of the ISC and Neo-Tholians but that's the first module I consider non-essential for my enjoyment of the game.

All that said, Basic Set is still an awesome value, and you can use only that to have a lot of fun. One of the things I really like about BS, AM and C1 is that the empires all feel different in their classes of ships. They each have 'odd ducks' that don't match up perfectly to the other empires. I like that the Kzintis have the only true carriers in the Basic Set and that a lot of their ships are obviously designed to fight in their civil wars rather than neighboring empires. I like that there are ships like the Klingon F5 which don't really fall neatly into a frigate or destroyer BPV. I like that only the Klingons have a battleship. I like that the Federation Dreadnought is kinda wimpy in the Basic Set. I like that the Romulans have ships that have big weapons for their size compared to other empires. I like that the Tholians have small ships with a big defensive 'weapon' in web. Basically, I like that each empire is unique in their ship classes and that the ships all have weaknesses as well as strengths.

Even with Advanced Missions, and certainly by R1-R4, the "Every empire has to have every major class of ship" starts to creep in. Obviously there are still differences between the empires, but they become much less pronounced. The refits make ships more balanced so their major weaknesses are gone. This isn't to say that I dislike refitted ships, or more options, but given the choice, I prefer battles between older ships. Nothing makes you appreciate a D7C (or a D5C) more than having to fly an unrefitted D6 or D7. Smile
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IKerensky
Lieutenant SG


Joined: 17 Jan 2011
Posts: 108
Location: blois - France

PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 8:00 am    Post subject: Re: SFB cost effectiveness comparison Reply with quote

captaincf wrote:
SFB is not a cheap game. But compared to some other games it is actually a much better deal, for the following reasons:


Depend on what other games you are refering too. You can turn this argument around in so many sense or replace SFB with many other game serie name.
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kinshi
Lieutenant JG


Joined: 09 Apr 2011
Posts: 84
Location: Port Orchard, WA

PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

After spending a bunch of dough years ago on pretty much every module, its safe to say now I really did not need to as our little group found itself trying hard to trim the # of rules we used otherwise it took over an hour to process a single turn, sometimes more. Often we got the new modules simply for the new SSDs, the new rules sat unused.

SFB customizes quite well, for our group we did the following to make the game a lot more smooth for us;

1. Use Tournament rules (as far as what rules get included and which ones are excluded). The big things this accomplished for us were getting rid of the EW complexities and hassles, as well as the burden of having far too many drone drone rack, and drone warhead types.

2. Use of Battle Cards (along with Command Cards, and Impulse cards). Got rid of 'me too' firing, got simpler DA that was still inline with the DAC, and impulse tracking became easy (not a chore that one of us gets saddled with).

3. Our big deviation from the Tournament rules was using non-Tournament ships (though we do our best to try mirror the balance of the tournament cruisers). This is made easier for us as we limit ourselves to ships Y135 and OLDER. We use the older ships because they are not as flexible and resilient as the newer models, thus can die faster.

4. We use the MegaHex board, its got less space, so players get to the nitty gritty a lot faster. Not as much room for 'dance recitals'.

So all told, we use the Basic set, T Mod (Tourney Rules), R Mods 1-4 & R8 (more ships+ System Defense Command), H Mod (Megahex) , D2 Mod (Tourney Tactics). Also have Advanced Missions, Tactics Handbook, and Campaign Designer's Handbook.

The next thing we are looking at is moving to miniature play and using the tabletop instead of the hex grid. After observing a number of folks playing Warhammer and how into the whole scene and miniature painting they were, I realized how that does make a SFB a lot more interesting (not to mention attractive to crossover players from Warhammer), so now looking into which miniature sets I should get.

Also, we really have a strong distaste for all the giant ships in the Doomsday edition..I mean I am a reject from the Commander's Edition where were told under no uncertain ships that no race would EVER have battleships save for the Klingon's and their economy-busting B-10. Now there are a plethora of B-10 variants, B-11s, every race has one too, then these massive 'Area Control Ships', and DN variants as far as the eye can see. Anyway, limiting to Y135 and older keeps us away from those monster ships.

Our group decided the largest hull type we would use is a CA hull (CL or DD hulls being the most commonly used), and the biggest base type would be the MB.

We also use modified SSDs..Basically we scanned in our SSDs, I removed all the firing tables from them along with the movement chart, and in their place put the PF EA form (with some mods to make it work for regular ships), and then for drone/plasma races, printed the drone/plasma tracking form on the back of the SSD.

I know this path is not for everyone, but for us it keeps it things running smoothly and we almost never get stuck with 'rules lawyering'.
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terryoc
Captain


Joined: 07 Oct 2006
Posts: 1380

PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 10:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
...now looking into which miniature sets I should get.


The "Border Boxes" of miniatures for FC are good value at $100 IMO. Good mix of ships and cheaper than buying individually or as part of smaller box sets.
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kinshi
Lieutenant JG


Joined: 09 Apr 2011
Posts: 84
Location: Port Orchard, WA

PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 11:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, yes the Border Boxes are looking pretty attractive
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Jeffr0
Commander


Joined: 19 Jun 2009
Posts: 741

PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 1:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kinshi wrote:
2. Use of Battle Cards (along with Command Cards, and Impulse cards). Got rid of 'me too' firing, got simpler DA that was still inline with the DAC, and impulse tracking became easy (not a chore that one of us gets saddled with).


Two things here: I dislike the Battle Cards because the odds are not correct. Rolling 20 2d6 rolls *is* a chore though. I haven't gotten to the point where I make a plastic case o' 2d6's so that you can roll that many at once, though. (I may be a bit OCD in being unable to accept the cards' results, though.)

When playing a duel... I use the command cards. I make the other player say what he's doing... then reveal my cards. This is easy enough and does not require the new player to understand what an alpha strike is.

kinshi wrote:

4. We use the MegaHex board, its got less space, so players get to the nitty gritty a lot faster. Not as much room for 'dance recitals'.


I've played on the big boards... and I really do not like it when they deviate from the "regulation" size map in terms of number of hexes.

When setting up a battle pass... a lot of people think the 20 hexes of movement at the start of the turn is pointless... but where the ships end up in relation to the scatter pack drones and the timing of the turn break and how close the Klingon comes to the "oblique option point" is really critical. It takes maybe five minutes to play out those impulses... but there is a lot going on there even if no one is shooting.
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