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Drones at fleet scale
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IKerensky
Lieutenant SG


Joined: 17 Jan 2011
Posts: 108
Location: blois - France

PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 7:36 am    Post subject: Drones at fleet scale Reply with quote

With the new change in the ADD, does firing drones at fleet scale really matter anymore ?

The amount of drones needed to overwhelm the target just got multiplied by roughly half the number of ennemy ships.

Drones were always a bit wimpy with their slow move, now you need even more of them just to have a chance to reach a target that isn't even trying to evade.

Combined with the fairly low number of drones at this scale, it make them nearly pointless. Especially if you consider that the ADD to Drone ratio is higher at this scale than at squadron scale.

Looks like the kzinti need some new toys.
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terryoc
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Joined: 07 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 8:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't play Fleet scale, so haven't noticed any problem. Kzinti main weapons are disruptors and phasers anyway, the drones are just a distraction and make up for their average turn rates. Klingons tend to turn faster than average.[/quote]
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storeylf
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Joined: 24 Jul 2008
Posts: 1882

PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not sure what you mean by 'slow drones' speed 24 isn't really slow, it may not be the fastest possible speed, but it is the fastest base speed. That's not exactly slow.

I'm still waiting for a few more games to get a better feel, but at the moment I think the ADD change was too much of a balance shift, even at squadron scale.
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Kang
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Joined: 23 Sep 2007
Posts: 1967
Location: Devon, UK

PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

storeylf wrote:
Not sure what you mean by 'slow drones' speed 24 isn't really slow, it may not be the fastest possible speed, but it is the fastest base speed. That's not exactly slow.

The only thing I can think of is back in the early days of SFB (I'm talking 1981, Designer's Edition) where drones were Speed 8 and more or less a complete waste of time.

This was before they had really invented faster drones. There were some that had speed 12, but with the Commander's Edition they got much more complex and it took you a whole evening just to calculate your loadout.

Whether this is what he means, I dunno, though..... Wink
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Kang
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Joined: 23 Sep 2007
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Location: Devon, UK

PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

...but to answer the initial question, the new ADD rules don't really reduce drones all that much. It just means that any ship within range and carrying an ADD can use it on passing drones; however they probably would have phasered them anyway.
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IKerensky
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Location: blois - France

PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Except they dont have to use the phaser on them anymore and can fire them offensively (of course Ph-3 are still quite useless for something else ).

I say drones are slow because speed 24 is slower than speed 24+1 and thus they can easily be avoided, at least for some impulse. Heck, even against a target that goest 16+1 they wont hit, never.

Each ship have an ADD, even on fleet scale, while the number of Drone were divided by 2.

If 3 ships shoot drones at one ship in a formation of 3 at fleet scale that mean usually 3-6 drones that will get hit by 3 ADD for several impulse before even impacting.

Before offensive ADD, thoses 3 drones would only have been met by 1 ADD and only one shoot of it. Now they are meet by several other ADD (from other ships not targeted so they can freely use their ADD to help) and the ADD of the target that can be fired before hitting... and perhaps even several time if he goes at a base 16 speed.

As I say Drones life expectancy have been actually divided by 2 or 3.

I understand that drones aren't that much glamorous, but right now they have come from a nuisance to a oversight.
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duxvolantis
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Joined: 16 Nov 2010
Posts: 185

PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IKerensky wrote:


I understand that drones aren't that much glamorous, but right now they have come from a nuisance to a oversight.


Why not halve the ammo in the ADD rack at fleet scale?

Would be easy to playtest as a house rule.
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Dux Volantis
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IKerensky
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Joined: 17 Jan 2011
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Make some sense... as the ammo should be more used than before. On the other hand I am unsure it would really impact that much given the game usual length...
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Steve Cole
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It wouldn't function well. We tried it and it didn't work worth a flip.
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Brazouck
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Joined: 03 Jun 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is there any method to have the offensive add rules without buying a new rulebook ? I have got a rev2 in my box of klingon border.
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mjwest
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Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Posts: 3496
Location: Dallas, Texas

PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When the RRB6a is released, the CRUL2 (errata file available on Commanders' Circle) will have all of the updates between Rev5 and Rev6. (Including the updated ADD rule.) You can download it for free.

However, Rev2 is pretty old. You will probably also want to download the original CRUL, too, to get you up to Rev5.

That all said, $15 is a pretty reasonable price. Since you are back on Rev2, getting the new rulebook would be pretty handy.

EDIT:
Forgot to add that the other rulebooks will be updated over the very near future. I am sure Steve will announce as books are done. Once the Klingon Border rulebook is updated, I recommend that you contact Leanna (using the sales @ starfleetgames . com email address) asking the best way to update your Klingon Border rulebook.
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Capt Jack
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Joined: 12 Mar 2011
Posts: 102
Location: England U.K

PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 3:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

duxvolantis wrote:
IKerensky wrote:


I understand that drones aren't that much glamorous, but right now they have come from a nuisance to a oversight.


Why not halve the ammo in the ADD rack at fleet scale?

Would be easy to playtest as a house rule.


Nice idea, but you could double the amount of drones held by each rack.

i.e / is one drone fired. x is two. Just a thought!

As I also think it greatly weakens drone race ships. Crying or Very sad
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IKerensky
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 7:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Halving ADD or worse, doubling drone ammo, wouldn't alter the main problem.

It is not the basic number of drone avaliable versus ADD, it is the basic ratio of Drone Launcher vs ADD that is seriously lowered by fleet scale.
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Capt Jack
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My thought was to just keep drones firing while add ships would have to reload.

Will have to have a look at Fleet scale. As I am sure the problems are multiplyied. Even if my opponents Storelf and Targ threaten me pain booth! Twisted Evil
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Blammo
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Joined: 01 Mar 2011
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Location: Barnesville, GA

PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Drones, whether in SFB or FC, have always been about one thing: overwhelming the target's defenses. You have to give the target unit (and ally ships) more things to engage that they can successfully do so. Drones, on their own, are not the winning weapon any more that dirsuptors, phasers or photons (or any other weapon system) are.

In a duel, with two ships of relatively equal value, I will never hit you with a drone if I don't do something to force more options than you can successfully deal with. Even if I do that I may still not hit with a drone (but I might reduce the number of phasers or other weapons coming my way). The 'name of the game' is not "hit him/herwith a drone" but blow big holes in his/her ship any way I can. As such, drones are just one weapon in the arsenal to do that (as ADDs are just one way to try ans stop you).

Like everything in FC (or SFB for that matter), it takes work to get what you want (hits on target). FC fleet scale just requires modified drone tactics than you would see in FC squadron scale (or SFB).
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