Federation Commander

Mike · Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 2:20 am Post subject: Mines in FC

There has been some discussion of mines being included in Federation Commander (or more probably BoM). Perhaps a separate thread is needed as a place for players to inject ideas.
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Mike · Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 2:27 am Post subject:

Some ideas to stir the pot.

Considering mines, they would have to be kept simple. Detection and effect could be like asteroids. There could be large mines and small mines for different amounts of damage. No mine laying during a scenario.

Only one mine per hex. Ships' sensors would be able to detect more than one so they would destroy them from a safe distance.

Effect: only the immediate hex and only on the ship that triggers the mine. Any ship passing through the hex would have the mine "impact" its facing shield just like a drone does. One problem would be how to note which hexes contain the mines since the official mapboards have multiple hexes with the same number designation (perhaps "B-2, 0710" for "board #2, hex 0710"). This would be a real pain if the map was a location map where boards would probably be moved around as the need arose.
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Dal Downing · Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 3:10 am Post subject:

Last time this was brought up I think SVC said basicly it will probably be a simplified port of M1-M4 from SFB. No Captors, T Bombs, or Dummies no Hidden Deployment (I bet this will go just like Defense Satellites). Straight up mine sweeping. Of course nothing is definite until it is published =)
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JonPerry · Lieutenant SG Joined: 12 Jul 2010 Posts: 124

The only thing I really miss about mines is that the Tholian Death Spiral doesn't work unless there are mines in the system.

I'll live with the Wedding Cake, but I always liked the Spiral of Death.

gar1138 · Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 4:48 pm Post subject:

I think that basic explosive mines (large and small) would be all that is needed. The explosion affects everything in the hex and surrounding hexes. None of the other complex mine types, etc. Probably have them be present as part of a scenario (ie, they can't be laid during a scenario). They can't be swept either. Some sort of die roll to determine if they trigger/explode.

Basically, they would be a glorified scenario-specific rule. Just my $.02. Thanks,

Garrett

mjwest · Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 5:34 pm Post subject:

You know, mines would be harder than I thought. (At least to make them useful.)

OK, let's assume that we only use large and small explosive mines*. Let's assume they use the same detection radius as SFB. Let's simplify everything by saying that a ship using base speed 0 will trigger a mine on 1-2. (Going faster is an automatic trigger.) OK, sounds simple, right?

Well, not really. You must include conditional trigger rules. (I forget the right name for that.) In other words, you have to be able to set a mine to only trigger on SC4+ (or whatever) targets. Without this ability, minefields in a fleet environment become pointless, because at that point the attackers simply use drones and/or shuttles to destroy any necessary mines. So that increases the complexity quite a bit to explain all of that.

Also, having mines means you probably want to include minesweepers. That adds in more complexity to describe and outline that whole process.

So, I have to conclude that including mines, even if they are vastly simplified over SFB mines, will be significantly longer than people are thinking. They just aren't that simple. (Well, OK. They can't be that simple and still be useful.)

[*]The other thing to consider is captor mines. They are a legitimate tool in base defense that can help immensely. Being able to use those might be necessary when you have a massive base assault. (Or even to give, say, a battle station a chance to live.) They do have to be considered. Remember when people were asking to deploy DefSats around bases? Well captor mines are what is supposed to be used instead.
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Steve Cole · Site Admin Joined: 11 Oct 2006 Posts: 3807

We might want to set mines for

drones

drones and shuttles

shuttles

shuttles and ships

ships
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storeylf · Fleet Captain Joined: 24 Jul 2008 Posts: 1887

Say BoM only please

ericphillips · Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 6:51 pm Post subject:

Again, I see mines in FC as presets for scenarios, like asteroids and preset webs. another little challenge. No mine laying. It is a complete different concept from SFB, and you need to divorce yourself more from SFB to get to the spirit of FC.

mjwest · Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 8:15 pm Post subject:

mojo jojo · Lieutenant Commander Joined: 23 Jun 2009 Posts: 340

mjwest · Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 11:45 pm Post subject:

I'm not thinkin' that's gonna work. That would transform mines from a hurdle to be overcome to an impenetrable barrier. I really don't think that is what we want.
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mojo jojo · Lieutenant Commander Joined: 23 Jun 2009 Posts: 340

Steve Cole · Site Admin Joined: 11 Oct 2006 Posts: 3807

IF (and it's a huge if) we ever do mines in BoM, I do NOT intend to invent something totally different from SFB that shares only the same name.

It will be a matter of taking the SFB mine rules and removing parts of them until we get a set we think fits the spirit of FC.
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Nerroth · Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 4:40 pm Post subject:

For my part, I have no interest in seeing any sort of mine warfare emerge in FC, BoM or otherwise; however, if it were to be considered, I suppose there might be scope for Andromedan PA mines, too.

(If FC ever takes a look over at M33, the Imperium have a medium mine rack system, but that's an optional refit which they could well do without.)
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