Federation Commander Forum Index Federation Commander
A NEW fast paced board game of starship combat!
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Cloak understanding
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Federation Commander Forum Index -> Rules Questions
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Savedfromwhat
Commander


Joined: 23 Aug 2007
Posts: 638

PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 2:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike, if your opponent locks onto your tail you have gained the initiative, it is a huge boon to you. If you go slow and he does as well he is opening himself up to a plasma shot, even if it is two turn F's it is a lot of damage. EA is when you get to shine, if your opponent doesn't pick your exact speed, you have him because he will spend twice the power you have to keep up.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Blammo
Lieutenant SG


Joined: 01 Mar 2011
Posts: 170
Location: Barnesville, GA

PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 5:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mike_espo wrote:
...The cloak rules seem to work pretty good. With two exceptions: Drones, I feel are too easy to hit cloaking ships. There should be a chance for Drones only to lose lock-ons...


I know it won't happen, but I agree with this. One roll per seeking weapon on the cloaked ship would not be that big a complication or slow the game down that much. Again, I know it won't happen, but I would like to see something like this. It becomes completely pointless to cloak once you have seeking weapons targeted on you (if you are a cloak able ship) and becomes almost suicidal if it is a pack of seeking weapons.

mike_espo wrote:
Maybe allow for some hidden movement; maybe leave the cloak counter on the map, but allow the ship to move hidden within 3 hexes of the counter. Allow the cloaked player to inform the others which shield the cloaked ship is facing. All other rules stay the same Very Happy


This I do disagree with. While I love the hidden movement for cloaked vessels, it would slow down and complicate FC tremendously (when cloaked units are involved). I don't know what would be gained. I do, however, wish they would use the 2 x range +5 that is used in SFB, but I think I understand the reasoning behind that too.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
mike_espo
Lieutenant JG


Joined: 17 Mar 2011
Posts: 72
Location: Chicago, IL

PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Savedfromwhat wrote:
Mike, if your opponent locks onto your tail you have gained the initiative, it is a huge boon to you. If you go slow and he does as well he is opening himself up to a plasma shot, even if it is two turn F's it is a lot of damage. EA is when you get to shine, if your opponent doesn't pick your exact speed, you have him because he will spend twice the power you have to keep up.


Hmmmm. Not sure I agree. I usually play 1st Gen Romulans; WarEagle, Battlehawk, ect. My weapons point FA.. With HET, you get one free, then 50% Breakdown. Won't get my weapons to bear....

Blammo. Forgot the exact SFB cloak rules. Am playtesting the hidden rule where the counter is within 3 of the actual position. I agree, it slows down play somewhat, but not un managable.

Ill let ya know. Wink
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Savedfromwhat
Commander


Joined: 23 Aug 2007
Posts: 638

PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its cool if you don't agree I also play first gen romulans and if my opponent slows down while I am under cloak he will usually lose.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
duxvolantis
Lieutenant SG


Joined: 16 Nov 2010
Posts: 185

PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mike_espo wrote:


Hmmmm. Not sure I agree. I usually play 1st Gen Romulans; WarEagle, Battlehawk, ect. My weapons point FA.. With HET, you get one free, then 50% Breakdown. Won't get my weapons to bear....

Ill let ya know. Wink


There are definite tricks to maneuvering while cloaked. I try to avoid cloaking and turning *away* unless there is terrain I can use ( a nice planet to circle around or something ).

Usually I will do an under-run trying to skirt outside my selected range (based on opponent), usually on the oblique, and avoid using my own turns if at all possible.

It is relatively simple to stay behind a cloaked ship. It is much harder to keep a cloaked ship in arc if you are moving fast and he is coming toward you without HET'ing, swinging wide or using energy to cancel movements. Any of those is desirable (swinging wide keeps the range open, HET'ing burn the HET which is nice and of course burning extra energy is phasers he cannot fire).

With energy allocation so much more flexible in FC than in SFB I have found that careful attention to maneuver is critical when flying plasma or cloaking.
_________________
Dux Volantis
Romulan Star Empire
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mike_espo
Lieutenant JG


Joined: 17 Mar 2011
Posts: 72
Location: Chicago, IL

PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess it matters if the Roms have more than one ship. Then the "get behind" trick will be dangerous. Otherwise, it seems wrong that a enemy can sit behind a cloaked ship. Sad
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Savedfromwhat
Commander


Joined: 23 Aug 2007
Posts: 638

PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 10:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

An enemy can't afford to sit behind a cloaked ship for long, if you go 0 and they go 8, they will burn a lot of energy to stay behind you and you can turn every single impulse with acceleration because hou have a turn mode of 1. If he goes 8 or 16 its even more risky, so during EA you have a 2 in 3 chance to outguess your opponent. If you cloak after firing. Torpedoes you have 3 turns to outguess him, unless he is incredibly lucky you will be fine, especially if you saved any plasma at all because if your enemy slows down during EA he is asking to be hit by your plasma.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mike_espo
Lieutenant JG


Joined: 17 Mar 2011
Posts: 72
Location: Chicago, IL

PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 12:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Should'nt complain. Very Happy

After playing scenario Destruction of Mobile Base X ray in squadron scale, the Romulans scored a Decisive victory over the Federation. The Romulan War Eagle succeeded in crippling a Fed War Destroyer and scoring internals vs the Base. The DW would no doubt have been destroyed if the Romulans had a 2nd generation starship. As it was, he had enough initial seperation after the bolt hit him where he could disengage with ease. Razz

The Romulans were able to achieve this level of victory by using HET, cloak, Bolting a two turn F and hitting both the DW and the MB with a R torpedo. The scenario did take 9 turns to complete with standard cloak rules and 12 turns with experimental hidden movement. My opponent did close to within 2 hexes with the DW when I hit him with the R and he never fully recovered after that! Twisted Evil

I first played the scenario with the Standard cloaking rules and got the above result. Replayed it with the Hidden movement options and the result was the same, but more time was taken to finish. Embarassed

So I guess the cloaking rules are good. Still think something should be done with drones though.... Wink
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
JonPerry
Lieutenant SG


Joined: 12 Jul 2010
Posts: 127

PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Roms don't pay enough of a surcharge for the cloak to allow it to be even more effective against drones than it already is.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
IKerensky
Lieutenant SG


Joined: 17 Jan 2011
Posts: 108
Location: blois - France

PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JonPerry wrote:
to be even more effective against drones than it already is.


Wich is : absolutely not....
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
mike_espo
Lieutenant JG


Joined: 17 Mar 2011
Posts: 72
Location: Chicago, IL

PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JonPerry wrote:
Roms don't pay enough of a surcharge for the cloak to allow it to be even more effective against drones than it already is.


Not quite sure I agree with that..... Confused

I think the results of my scenarios was the Fed player was not too experienced-as he got within two hexes when he should have known I had my R ready. I am sure had I played against a really good Fed player, probably would have gotten my arse handed to me Laughing
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Blammo
Lieutenant SG


Joined: 01 Mar 2011
Posts: 170
Location: Barnesville, GA

PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JonPerry wrote:
Roms don't pay enough of a surcharge for the cloak to allow it to be even more effective against drones than it already is.


Disagree - Drones still track and hit AND the cloaked ship has to be going slow. How is that effective against drones? Four impulses worth of cloak energy is cheap?

I still say seeking weapons should have to roll to retain tracking on a cloaked vessel...but, just my view on it Smile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
JonPerry
Lieutenant SG


Joined: 12 Jul 2010
Posts: 127

PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Quote:
JonPerry wrote:
to be even more effective against drones than it already is.


Wich is : absolutely not....

Drones not yet in flight cannot be launched at you at all. You have absolute immunity from future drone launches for as long as you stay under. Drones already in flight only hit you for half damage. A measly six points. How is this 'absolutely not' effective?

You aren't (or shouldn't be) cloaking because of an incoming drone anyway. You are cloaking because you've decided that six points of drone damage on the shield of your choice is better than three photons + four phasers busting your War Eagle apart while your tubes are empty.

Quote:
Four impulses worth of cloak energy is cheap?

I could have been more clear. By "don't pay enough of a surcharge", I didn't mean energy cost, I mean ship point value.

But yes, if you have planned ahead then the cloak energy cost is reasonable enough. If you hadn't planned for it, burned a bunch of power, and about mid turn find that you suddenly need that cloak, then you are probably screwed. I'm okay with that.

Considering the low ship point cost the Roms pay for the cloak, they get a pretty good system.

I know i'm not going to convince anyone Smile These are just my thoughts on the topic.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Blammo
Lieutenant SG


Joined: 01 Mar 2011
Posts: 170
Location: Barnesville, GA

PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Even a 1 in 6 chance for a seeking weapon to look track of a cloaked vessel (once is has gone fully cloaked, not during 'fade out') would be better than the "sucks to be you cause my drone/plasma/suicide shuttle is going to hit you anyway" way it works now.

Just my view on it. But, FC has been around for a while so I reckon it works...nothing work me not playing a Romulan over Smile Smile Smile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
mike_espo
Lieutenant JG


Joined: 17 Mar 2011
Posts: 72
Location: Chicago, IL

PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 12:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would say that a Drone should have a 33% chance of losing lock on. Plasma torpedoes maybe a 1 in 6 chance, or not.

Otherwise, cloaking seems to work OK in the scenarios Ive played so far....
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Federation Commander Forum Index -> Rules Questions All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Page 2 of 3

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group