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Evasive Maneuvers
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mike_espo
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Joined: 17 Mar 2011
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Location: Chicago, IL

PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Where is the Answerman??? Very Happy
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Kang
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kang wrote:
So if you wanted to be EM during the DF phase of Impulse 1 of the next turn, you can pay during Impulse 8 of the current turn and then again at the beginning of the next turn; that way there will be no break in the EM.

In fact, assuming you didn't need to be under EM in the 8th Impulse but did want to be under EM in Impulse 1 of the next turn, the Turn Break Exception - 2 mentioned by Scoutdad would be the way to go. It would save a lot of power, for one thing Smile
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Kang
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mike_espo wrote:
Where is the Answerman??? Very Happy

Answerman?? Weee don' need no steenkin' Answerman! Wink
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mjwest
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Joined: 08 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mike_espo wrote:
Where is the Answerman??? Very Happy

Busy, actually.

Regardless, both Storey and 'dad are explaining it correctly.

- You cannot start EM in Energy Allocation; you can only continue it (or not).
- When declaring EM in impulse #8, you can either start (and pay) for it immediately, or you can defer start (and payment) until Energy Allocation of the following turn.

This is all in the (2D4) rule 'dad quoted.
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mike_espo
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks. But what about the fact that EM announced in the DFF and takes effect in the next DFF??? If I pay on impulse 8 DFF, it does not take effect till Impulse 1 of the next turn.

How does this help me on impulse 8??
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Kang
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well the reason is because you declare it in the Defensive Fire Phase, and it takes effect after the subsequent Direct Fire Phase - that follows immediately afterwards in that same impulse. That doens't protet you from direct fire, sure, but it does protect you from tractor and transporter attempts.

The problem in our explanations above is that the abbreviation we have used - DFF - can (phonetically at least) stand for both Direct Fire Fase and Defensive Fire Fase. Oops on the spelling Wink

[edit - also oops on the cross-posting]
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Last edited by Kang on Thu Apr 21, 2011 8:00 pm; edited 2 times in total
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mjwest
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mike_espo wrote:
Thanks. But what about the fact that EM announced in the DFF and takes effect in the next DFF??? If I pay on impulse 8 DFF, it does not take effect till Impulse 1 of the next turn.

Not exactly,

You declare (and pay for) EM at the very end of the Defensive Fire Phase. It takes effect after the Direct Fire Phase of that same impulse. That means it is in effect during the Other Functions Phase of that same impulse.

So, for example, if you declare EM at the end of Defensive Fire in Impulse #6, it takes effect at the end of Direct Fire in Impulse #6 (meaning you had a 'last chance' to exchange some fire). This means that it is in effect during the Other Functions Phase of Impulse #6, so that even if your opponent dropped your shields in that Direct Fire Phase, he cannot send over any marines because you are now using Evasive Maneuvers.
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duxvolantis
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Under the turn break exception 2 it would seem to me that this would allowe one to declare EM on Impulse 8 but still launch seeking weapons before it goes into effect since the effect is deferred till Energy Allocation.

This could be useful for either drone chuckers who just want to get em on the map or, even more usefully, for a plasma ship who wants to launch and then be under EM during offensive fire of Impulse 1.

FWIW I think the "simplicity" of everything starting over every turn is creating some confusing and artificial exceptions and also resulting in some pretty cheasy tactics as well, such as the ED+TAC on Impulse 8, the pre-paid half turn of cloaking, and so on.
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Dux Volantis
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mjwest
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

duxvolantis wrote:
Under the turn break exception 2 it would seem to me that this would allowe one to declare EM on Impulse 8 but still launch seeking weapons before it goes into effect since the effect is deferred till Energy Allocation.

Sure. But then, your opponent can do the same, safe in the knowledge that you must start EM the next turn, and will be so for two impulses. I'm not really seeing an issue.
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duxvolantis
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 10:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mjwest wrote:
duxvolantis wrote:
Under the turn break exception 2 it would seem to me that this would allowe one to declare EM on Impulse 8 but still launch seeking weapons before it goes into effect since the effect is deferred till Energy Allocation.

Sure. But then, your opponent can do the same, safe in the knowledge that you must start EM the next turn, and will be so for two impulses. I'm not really seeing an issue.

Not an issue, just something somewhat artificial. Smile
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Dux Volantis
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mike_espo
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 10:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry guys!!!! Embarassed Embarassed

I mis-read the rule. it does say direct fire phase, which I assume is offensive fire phase.

Ahhhhhh.. Idea I see now how it does help if you don't want to be boarded, tractored.
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storeylf
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 11:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

duxvolantis wrote:
Under the turn break exception 2 it would seem to me that this would allowe one to declare EM on Impulse 8 but still launch seeking weapons before it goes into effect since the effect is deferred till Energy Allocation.

This could be useful for either drone chuckers who just want to get em on the map or, even more usefully, for a plasma ship who wants to launch and then be under EM during offensive fire of Impulse 1.


As much I dislike the rule, this is not really useful for drone chuckers - they launch on impulse 8 and then have to go EM during EA of impulse 1, at which point the drones they just launched are removed from the map (EM ship cannot control drones).

It is useful for plasma.

Its main benefit IMO is expensive 2 turn arming weapons like photons and hellbores, such ships under the old concept of actually having to properly manage energy would have struggled to overload weapons, go fast and keep back energy to go EM before the turn end, so that they can then be EM on impulse 1 (before the enemies weapons recycle). Now they get to dump extra enrgy to crunch shooting instead and then declare a delayed EM in imp 8.

The exception is a get out for being caught in a bad position at turn end. I've certainly done things (planned) that I'd have never have got away with prior to the cheesy escape exception, and it drives my opponents mad.
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duxvolantis
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 12:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

storeylf wrote:
duxvolantis wrote:
Under the turn break exception 2 it would seem to me that this would allowe one to declare EM on Impulse 8 but still launch seeking weapons before it goes into effect since the effect is deferred till Energy Allocation.

This could be useful for either drone chuckers who just want to get em on the map or, even more usefully, for a plasma ship who wants to launch and then be under EM during offensive fire of Impulse 1.


As much I dislike the rule, this is not really useful for drone chuckers - they launch on impulse 8 and then have to go EM during EA of impulse 1, at which point the drones they just launched are removed from the map (EM ship cannot control drones).

It is useful for plasma.

Its main benefit IMO is expensive 2 turn arming weapons like photons and hellbores, such ships under the old concept of actually having to properly manage energy would have struggled to overload weapons, go fast and keep back energy to go EM before the turn end, so that they can then be EM on impulse 1 (before the enemies weapons recycle). Now they get to dump extra enrgy to crunch shooting instead and then declare a delayed EM in imp 8.

The exception is a get out for being caught in a bad position at turn end. I've certainly done things (planned) that I'd have never have got away with prior to the cheesy escape exception, and it drives my opponents mad.


Good points all.

I always forget that in FC you cannot transfer drone control.
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Dux Volantis
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duxvolantis
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PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2011 8:02 am    Post subject: More Clarification? Reply with quote

Okay. Exception 2 says that you have to have the energy available at the time of declaration even if delaying paying for EM until EA of the next turn, correct?

So under that reading the following would be true:

1) A cruiser (move cost 1) with 7 energy remaining could declare Evasive during defensive fire of impulse 8, not pay the energy cost, and then on EA of the next turn would pay 6 energy for the EM which would immediately be in effect (with regard to restrictions, turn mode, etc) during movement of Impulse 1.

2) The same cruiser could do the same thing, declare EM on defensive fire phase of impulse 8, then fire 7 phaser 1's (expending all power) during the offensive fire phase and then pay for the EM during EA of the next turn.

3) The same cruiser, if only had 4 energy, could NOT declare EM during defensive fire phase of impulse 8 because it does not have enough energy at the time of declaration to declare. It could, of course, declare normally during defensive fire on impulse 1.

4) The same cruiser with 6 energy left (still enough for the EM cost of 6 for move cost 1) could declare EM during defensive fire of impulse 8 but defer paying for the EM. If it then took a shellacking which reduced it's total power to 4 it would blow up during EA of the following turn.

Finally,
5) The same cruiser with 6 energy left could declare EM during defensive fire of impulse 8 and pay for it at that time. If it did so and then got pummeled down to 4 energy it would be in bad shape but would not automatically be destroyed during EA because it did not activate with deferred payment under Exception 2. It would, however, immediately stop EM as it was not paid for during EA.

Do I have it right? Any minor errors? Major errors?

Thanks. (this came up during a battle today)
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storeylf
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PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2011 9:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You have it wrong on point 3.

You have it how I thought it was, as that is how the rule book states we should read terms such as "have enough energy available", that you have to have energy tokens available on impulse 8 that could have been used to pay for it. However, after a debate it turns out that it was meaning you have to have energy producing boxes left that could generate the power for it next turn.
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